[Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT

Thu Oct 6 09:21:20 PDT 2016

Hey Bill and Carol,

Good to hear from you.  Hope you have a relaxing, enjoyable, and renewing vacation.  Glad you're still using your Greek--have forgotten most of mine...

Tillich tried to talk about sin in another way other than the traditional "moralisms" of sins with an "s" and talked about the condition of sin as being separated from G-O-D, self, and others,

One other definition of sin, in light of our cosmic community:  Since life is intrinsically interrelated, connected, and never separated, sin is living AS IF we were not connected, "thereby missing the mark" and experiencing the consequences thereof.  That also means dishonoring the individuation, diversity, complexity and communion that is all of evolving life, 

Ellie
elliestock at aol.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: 'zbarley' <zbarley at earthlink.net>; 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Thu, Oct 6, 2016 10:56 am
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re:  THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT

Carol and I are on vacation – but some quick thoughts:  We’ve stayed kinda sorta grounded in the historical church as the called co-pastors of a small Presbyterian congregation in El Paso while doing the Project Vida thing.  It makes a lot of sense for us – demythologizing as we go while tying the transparent stuff back to the text (Greek is really fun for this – ‘sin’ is actually hamartia – missing the mark – i.e. screwing up, and repentance is metanoia – new mindedness or ‘OH, is that what’s going on!).  And getting to be part of people’s lives at a whole other level, which we also do in PV but not so intentionally.  

So the Word is the indicative (as we always learned again and again), not the imperative.  And in our textual clarity, is embedded in being itself which is embedded in it, so naturally, nothing that comes into being happens without being in/of that Word….

Anyway, it’s all a lot of fun!

From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of zbarley via OE
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 10:20 AM
To: oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Zoe Barley <zbarley at earthlink.net> 
Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) 
To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com> 
Cc: zbarley at earthlink.net 
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT 

Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral.

But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church.  We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance.  I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form.

Zoe 

-----Original Message----- 
From: James Wiegel 
Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM 
To: zbarley 
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT 

How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go?  Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty.  What does man gain from his labor??

And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . .  Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . .

Jim Wiegel  

“If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy

401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353

623-363-3277

jfwiegel at yahoo.com

www.partnersinparticipation.com

Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona

More info on:

ToP® Facilitation Methods 

ToP® Strategic Planning: 

Mastering the Technology of Participation  

Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule

AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses

The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003

From: zbarley <zbarley at earthlink.net>
To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com> 
Cc: "zbarley at earthlink.net" <zbarley at earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT

We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. 

And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it.

Zoe 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com> 
Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) 
To: zbarley <zbarley at earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> 
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT 

Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe.  And probably many people might have answers . . 

Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind.

The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal.  This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . .

The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going.  It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles.

God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology.  I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places.  Music and broadcast christianity as well.

With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian

In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement,  I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD")

Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality 

>From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving.  While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order,  seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going.  Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.

What is your take on it?

Jim Wiegel  

“If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy

401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353

623-363-3277

jfwiegel at yahoo.com

www.partnersinparticipation.com

Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona

More info on:

ToP® Facilitation Methods 

ToP® Strategic Planning: 

Mastering the Technology of Participation  

Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule

AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses

The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003

From: zbarley <zbarley at earthlink.net>
To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> 
Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT

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