[Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. -Dear Susan

Mon Nov 7 09:17:09 PST 2016

Thank you, Adam. Kingsolver is my favorite novelist. I think Poisonwood Bible is considered her masterpiece. It's about missionaries in Africa and was serialized on t.v. I especially liked The Prodigal Summer. It's set in Appalachia and features endangered butterflies and moths. She is a knowledgeable environmentalist.

The piece in The Guardian is so personal and vulnerable. I wrote in my book of my own struggle with not being treated as a full human being, and suppressed rage over that for years. The rage burst forth in 1998, when I was writing a paper for a course on Sophia, the wisdom goddess not totally suppressed from the Old Testament. I've believed that rage was a factor in my developing lymphoma.

I will so celebrate if HRC moves back into the White House and fully occupies the oval office. May it be so.

Grace and peace, dear colleagues. Guess we had to have our own kerfuffle over the U.S.election campaign (or war).

Jann McGuire

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Thomson via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Milan Hamilton <mellowmilan2 at gmail.com>; 'Susan Fertig' <sfertig at blueskytech.us>; 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; 'A.M. Noel' <anthonymarianoel at gmail.com>
Cc: 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 7, 2016 1:56 am
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. -Dear Susan

>From Adam Thomson, Dover UK.

Y'all might be interested in this searing article in today Monday's Guardian newspaper triggered by current concern over misogyny as it applies to HRC.

I felt in shreds by the time I had finished reading it - but I was glad that I had come across it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/06/hillary-clinton-white-house-donald-trump-bullying-barbara-kingsolver

Barbara Kingsolver is an American novelist, essayist and poet - that's all I know. Maybe someone on the list knows of her.

Love to all, Adam

END OF MESSAGE

In times of stress my beloved colleagues do come through with some stunning rehearsals in textual form of our reason for being what we are. That's why, after all these years, I still treasure this particular Order Ecumenical Community site. (I hope we don't discontinues this site soon, since I don't do to the social media sites).

I couldn't have put the case better than Milan, A.M. Noel, and Randy have: however, I am reminded that it's not a question of shutting anyone out. 

Susan still seems to be missing the point by saying rather plaintively "I won't be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails." Of course I don't want Susan to remove me from her emails. 

And also, Susan is missing the point by reproducing a political cartoon: how does that reinforce a particular message, or otherwise? 

As always, the issue is engagement. We wouldn't be having this somewhat strained conversation if we had not been subjected to this very particular US Presidential Election - and having said that, it surely is a positive for us to be shaken out of any complacency concerning the way life is, and for our awareness to be increased.

So I say, let us continue to keep on keeping on. I soak up the words of my colleagues and I am indeed invigorated. There is going to be lots to do.

We need to deploy candour without rancour when it is needed.

We need to resort to our RS1 knowledge: the Word is indeed offensive - but in spite of that, our challenge is to accept the fact that we are accepted.

Love from Adam Thomson

At 02:56 PM 06-11-16, Milan Hamilton wrote:
The hatred and vitriolic utterances that I have heard coming from the Hillary haters, and to have to bear it from some of those who have been through the same theological and sociological education that I have been exposed to, is giving me pause in these days. What has happened to Bonhoeffer, who would be turning over in his grave, not to mention our eschatological hero, JC. What has happened to â€œinnocent until proven guiltyâ€ and then what of the eternal Word that was planted in history more than 2000 years ago, and in fact has been true since the big bang? What of the All is good, All is received, accepted and possible? What of forgiveness? What about leaving the judgment to One, and only One, capable of judgment. What of the â€œthose who careâ€ as neither belonging to the establishment nor the dis-establishment? The trans-establishment? I wonder if all that work we did is now lost on us? I for one will go to bed Tuesday night, celebrating our first woman President, or lamenting the ignorance of our citizenry (and I mean ignorance not in the derogatory fashion, but in its more literal and historic meaning) in electing The Donald. But I will not arise on Tuesday and move to Canada or Mexico. We endured 8 years of the wrong decisions of the Bush administration and we will survive four (hopefully), or eight if necessary of the alternative. This election should be a wake-up call to all who value freedom and the weird form of democracy that is our Republic. Peace, Peace, even when there is no Peace! 

Milan Hamilton
Aka Mellowmilan
80 North Center Street
Redlands, CA 92373
909-735-5163 (H)
909-556-5815 (M)
E-mail: mellowmilan2 at gmail.com
Blog: www.mellowmilan.blogspot.com
Blog 2: www.mellowmilansite.wordpress.com

From: OE [ mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Susan Fertig via OE
Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2016 6:38 PM
To: A.M. Noel <anthonymarianoel at gmail.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; Adam Thomson <adam.thomson007 at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. -Dear Susan

Susan

Susan Fertig-Dykes
(personal email account)

And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought .  Isaiah 58:11

Protect against email address harvesting:
Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; 
delete sendersâ€™ E-Mail addresses when forwarding.
NOTE: I wonâ€™t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails.

From: OE [ mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of A.M. Noel via OE
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 10:26 AM
To: Adam Thomson < adam.thomson007 at btinternet.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net >
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. -Dear Susan

Dear Colleages,
History is once again being created by the very first women president in the USA. The world has been wiating for this moment and she is the Best and the most caring human being  in spite of her mistakes. Linda and I have moved to the city of contribution (DC). We are all ready begun with theChicago cubs winning the world series and Hillary soon wining the, Ceelebrattion time come on Lets celebrate and have the best time. . 
A.M. Noel 
206-321-6274 

A.M. Noel

On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 12:30 AM, Adam Thomson via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote:
>From Adam Thomson, Dover in the UK,
As one who originally consciously and physically joined the Spirit Movement in 1972, I have been stimulated by the responses in this stream - especially from Jaime, Dharma and Randy.
I was also negatively stimulated by Susan Fertig's comments concerning HRC, and applauded Randy's posting on that.
I had been struck by Susan's comments that revealingly included, "I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement."
I have to say that Sue Fertig - even after many years - still has not grasped what the "movement" is about, at least in part: as the Spirit Movement - as the forgiven ones - we are not "embarrassed" by the actions or otherwise of anyone allegedly or otherwise connected with it.
As it happens, I am still smarting from Susan's outrageous comments, including alleging that HRC was a criminal.
And then, last night (Wednesday) in the UK, I happened to see Michael Moore's most recent short film, "Michael Moore in Trumpland", which cheered me up no end.
I STRONGLY recommend people see this. Michael Moore was filmed doing a one-hour stand-up routine in Wilmington OH before an audience of committed HRC-haters, and the result was fascinating. Michael certainly put HRC's alleged past into a perspective that was helpful to me.

By the way - our daughter Mary (born July 4 1978 at Weiss Memorial Hospital in Chicago) has taken great pains to exert her right to a VOTE as a US citizen (for the first time!), and she posted off her absentee ballot yesterday. I'm not telling anybody how she voted...
Do try and see "Michael Moore in Trumpland", ASAP. It's a tremendous documentary.
Love to all, Adam Thomson
END OF MESSAGE
"At 12:31 PM 03-11-16, via OE wrote:
Thanks for this very helpful insight, Dharma.  As we are consumed with the rancor between left and right in this country, the broader view calls us to consider what issues deserve our attention when it comes to being compassionate and responsible world citizens.

Catherine Welch, Denver

From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:16 PM
To: Len Hockley ; laurelcg at aol.com ; Order Ecumenical Community ; Order Ecumenical Community
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. -Dear Susan

As an outsider, being in the Order/ICA gave me a close-up view of the US and how its citizens related to it. In all those years, beginning with Nixon all the way up to Obama, IÃ¢€™ve seen it invade and destroy nations around nd the world, releasing waves of refugees and other miseries. But within  the US, people lived in a cocoon that helped them avert their eyes. I remember the Vietnam war protesters and the many young people who fled the US in order not to be driven to kill Ã¢€œgooksÃ¢€ overseas. I noticed that at at best, we were silent on this and at worst, disapproving. When I look back, I see that the protesters were the Ã¢€œsensitive e and responsiveÃ¢€ part that Niebuhr wrote about. I also noticed the hunger among us to cite links to famous figures while pointing out that to live in the Ã¢€œno longer and the e not-yetÃ¢€ was to be Ã¢€œnobodiesÃ¢€ .  Perhaps this was was the effect of consuming the stories meant for our framing and fund-raising strategies.

I see that same hunger now reflected in recalling some distant crossing of trails with Hillary Clinton. Americans have been set up by the political elite to adopt positions around two equally ugly candidates put before them for the exercise of their Ã¢€œdemocratic rightsÃ¢€ â‚¬ . For all the emotions the Republican-Democrat tension evokes in our emails, election after election, that rivalry is a sham. This is a nation ruled by a Ã¢€œsingle party with two o factionsÃ¢€ . Whichever you praise or denigrate, the real owners of the land always win. And for the rest of us around the world, we can only wait for the light from this Ã¢€œbeacon on n the hillÃ¢€ to eventually fade. Then, perhaps, the US will  take its place as an ordinary member in the community of nations.

Dharma

On Wednesday, 2 November 2016, 7:33, Len Hockley via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote:
Dido Jon,  The Naked Now by Richard Rohr is required reading!
Len Hockley
On 11/1/2016 2:58 PM, via OE wrote:
Love this, Jon. Thanks.

Jann
-----Original Message-----
From: jonzondo at juno.com via OE mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
To: isobeljimbish mailto:isobeljimbish at optusnet.com.au; oe mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
Cc: oe mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:37 pm
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan
Dear Group.
Jon Elizondo here.  Son of Tony and Ellery.
Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult.
This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives.
I will try to hone in now on one of my key points.
The change needed in the system is huge.  Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways.  We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. 
In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative.  The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up. 

One of the traps is either/or thinking.

one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking.

One of the traps is "personal attacks".

one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table".

What I know in my bones is that we are all connected.  That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward.

Walk in Beauty,
Jon

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net >
To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris at teamtechpress.com >, Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net >
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100
Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the
Honesty, pain and fear expressed in
depth,to give us outsiders some real hope.
Thankyou all.
In peace and love,
Isobel
Sent from my iPhone
On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote:
No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook
so we can all copy your words.
Priscilla Wilson

On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote:
Well said, Randy!!

On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote:
I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't.
Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote:
Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world.

Susan

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid
On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle at gmail.com > wrote:
Well,  what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him.
I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation.
Also I stand firm in ny admiration which  never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?".
Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time.  Rightly so.

On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote:
How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message?

Susan

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid
On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942 at gmail.com > wrote:

Dear Susan,

Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected?

>From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents.  Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald.

Each and every Ã¢€˜crimeÃ¢€™ that I have read read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bush administrations.

Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet.

Your phrase: "only values I see are  abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.Ã¢€ is really the truth that the world sees about Trump.

I would invite you to see all that as a projection.

Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree?

Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women.

While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an Ã¢€˜end d gameÃ¢€™ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ll Ã¢€˜endÃ¢€™.

Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression.

We are all responsible. Everyone.

Ken in Canada.

A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/1 2256510/republican-party-trump -avik-roy

On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote:

Values??? The only values I see are  abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement.

Susan

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid
On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote:
Colleagues--
    So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid.
    Inner Peace,
    Bill

Mrs. Hillary Clinton:
    It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world.
    It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City.
    You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote.
    Grace and Peace,
    Pastor William E. Salmon
    744 So. 10th
    Salina, KS  67401
    wsalmon at cox.net

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