[Oe List ...] This is a message from Doris Hahn

Fri May 13 16:16:15 PDT 2016

This has been a fun and enlightening discussion, but I have a new idea to propose: let's publish Joe's dissertation, with permission of his heirs.I can't imagine why it couldn't be done.Unless somebody can make a great argument that Joe wanted it buried forever in its unpublished state.Even so, in the context of making Joe's archives accessible and furtherance of academic research, I would make an even more persuasive case that Joe's early academic work needs to be available to the world as an essential context for understanding his contribution to history.His published dissertation would be, in effect, Joe's final gift to the world, despite its lack of Yale's doctoral imprimatur.Marshall 

    On Friday, May 13, 2016 11:27 AM, George Holcombe <geowanda1 at me.com> wrote:

 Here are some additional comments on JWM’s doctoral dissertation:   
   - JWM was recruited to Perkins by Merrimon Cuninggim then Dean. He was also a military chaplain in WWII like Joe. Dean Cuninggim who had the confidence of the Perkins Family (wealthy Texas oil family), had taken them to Yale to get their commitment to build similar buildings at SMU.  He succeeded. He also convinced them to help fund the hiring of top flight and promising theologians from across the U.S. with the idea of creating a Yale Theological school of the South.   Albert Outler, Ph.D., the leading Wesley scholar at the time and several others were brought to Perkins along with Joe.  Before then there was a joke that the theology school at SMU’s main purpose was to train pastors how to run the mimeograph.  Cuninggim transformed the school into a highly respected one.
   - During Joe’s time at Perkins he teamed with Slicker, Wilfred Bailey, Ed Hobbs and others, held retreats and other sessions about life issues tied to their theological studies. They were concerned to go beyond the academics.
   - When I arrived at Perkins, JWM and Slicker had gone to Faith and Life the semester before, but the stories about Joe’s teaching and style were all about.  Some of the professors were even accused of imitating his dramatic style of presentation.
   - In the 80’s when we returned to Dallas, I had several conversations with Dr. Outler, who was going into retirement.  He had a number of stories about Joe, for whom he had great affection.  One was the times he had encouraged Joe to finish his dissertation because he was convinced he would make a great professor, and how disappointed he was when Joe left.  Outler liked to point out that theologians spent their time together sharpening their arguments (not his words), which didn’t appeal to everyone.  He thought well of Joe’s dissertation.
   - Later in the 80’s when we started work on the archives with Betty Pesek in the basement, we ran across a folder that contained the receipts of Joe and Lyn’s first refrigerator among other things.  They seemed to have kept everything.  In another box there were 2 stacks of papers neatly tied.  The first was letters from soldiers to their parents or loved ones that were given to chaplains before going into battle in case they didn’t make it.  Those obviously did.  The second stack were letters from parents thanking Joe for having forwarded the last letter to them.  They were not easy to read and to realize that chaplains during WWII were on the battlefield.
Thanks to Beret and everyone in the community that has worked so hard on getting the archives in shape for future use.
George Holcombe14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
Austin, TX 78728
Mobile 512/252-2756
geowanda1 at me.com
"Whatever the problem, community is the answer.  There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about."  Margaret Wheatley

On May 11, 2016, at 4:55 PM, Doris Hahn via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Aren't these strings fun?!As John Epps said several days, Joe did his Ph.D. work at Yale under H. R. Niebuhr. Then, he taught at Colgate for a fairly short time before going to Perkins. I believe Marge's story about Joe's thesis is correct. I also believe that he dropped the thesis, because he decided that academia was not the route for a religious revolution. The rest of the story we know (though we certainly might not agree on various pieces of it).Doris Hahn
On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 4:12 PM, W. J. via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Marge P. has the typescript of Joe's thesis (I've seen it).More accurately, Joe did finish and submit it, but it was declined and returned for further revision, which Joe refused to do, according to Marge.Marshall 

    On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 12:19 PM, Beret Griffith <beretgriffith at gmail.com> wrote:

 From Jean Long - Brother Joe research...
On page 116 in Brother Joe, Jim Mathews writes, "On October passed his qualifying exams and was accepted as a PH.D. candidate. ( at Colgate?). A bit later he qualified in French and German as well.  He chose as as the topic for his  dissertation  'a Study of Love and Faith in the Thought of John Wesley' ."
"The fact is, Joe never completed this thesis.  It became a major burden to him as he was caught up in the demands of academia at Colgate and Southern Methodist."
Hope this helps.
On page 130 Jim says, "in 1960, Lincoln Memorial University awarded him an honorary Doctor of Divinity."
Thank you Jean!
Beret
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 3:12 PM, W. J. <synergi at yahoo.com> wrote:

You could say it takes the whole Order (or all the Order's wisdom) to write the Order's history.Many thanks to all who contributed to Beret's amazing work!Let's 'finish our work' as an Order before it's too late for us.Marshall 

    On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 12:45 PM, Beret Griffith <beretgriffith at gmail.com> wrote:

 It is very good you are catching errors. I went back and checked original notes from Doris and her notes do NOT say Joe graduated from Perkins. I don't know how that sentence was added, yet I must have added it from some statement in notes that I cannot find. I also cannot find my copy of Brother Joe. Jean Long has a copy and will take a look and see how Joe's academic life is addressed in the book. 
It is easy to edit the Chronological History. David Dunn will put in the edits. P. 10 and p 19 statements re: Joe graduating from Perkins will be taken out. John and Marshall, if you feel the information you have is needed in the ChronHist, please write a sentence or two and indicate where it is to go in the text.
And...anyone, as you read the Chronological History please send additions and corrections to me. I will gather information for the next edit. 
Also, the Addendum is for adding information after 1988.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Y0IgEUDJLGzZJp_DVoZ0ZwE4hiLfZ7inTTTmD9nLEdo/edit

Another document (currently a holding document for data) Summer Programs, Order Councils & Movement Gathering 1965-2016 will benefit from additional input.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZxgEuNuZAg58rvdD9SdwnsjsJUFMpf1UaVlpHDCA6iU/edit

Thank you for your attention to detail.Beret

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 1:27 PM, W. J. via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

     On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:26 AM, W. J. <synergi at yahoo.com> wrote:

 I thought we all knew it was Biblical Seminary, later named New York Theological Seminary. Many years later its president was George W. (Bill) Webber, who taught me @ UTS.Marshall 

    On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 9:54 AM, James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

 I am sorry . . . I cannot BELIEVE THIS . . .  two of you and neither one has Brother Joe right out on their desk?
Never happen if there was a kindle edition! Jim Wiegel  
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      From: John Epps via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
 To: Herman Greene <hfgreenenc at gmail.com> 
Cc: OE Listserv <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
 Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 7:57 AM
 Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] This is a message from Doris Hahn

His graduate theology studies (after his war experience) were at Yale under H. Richard Niebuhr. Like Doris, my copy of Brother Joe is somewhere else, but I think it probably names the school in New York.
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Herman Greene via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Oh, dear! I can't imagine that I wrote that JWM graduated from Perkins School of Theology, but it shows up twice (pp. 10 and 19). I know that he and Bishop Jim attended some theological school in NYC for a time (he said that is where they learned to do "charting"). Certainly, he taught at Perkins for four years, but did not attend as a student. Maybe Bishop Jim mentioned the NY school in Brother Joe, but I can't find our copy at the moment. Anyone else know where he attended theological school?
Doris Hahn
-- 
__________________________________________________Herman F. Greene2516 Winningham RoadChapel Hill, NC 27516919-942-4358 (ph & fax)hfgreenenc at gmail.com
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