[Oe List ...] On Bill Parker's "liberal"

Thu Oct 2 19:29:22 PDT 2014

"A rose by any other name is still a rose," or so, we once thought.  No more.  We look at reality and give it a name, not the other way around.  I consider myself a liberal (though that term no longer serves its old function) and I never come close to Bill's description of one.  

Nancy, my brand of being a liberal looks at reality, and where social change is happening and I see it necessary because what has been conserved no longer works, then I inject my life "into the barbwires of history", as it were.

John Epps' liberal heresy was a necessary corrective at the time he wrote it, in the same way as Order wisdom from which most of our operating ways derived from, was in many respect, not only timely but some, even ahead of its time.  But dichotomies enflame prejudices and passion, e.g., liberal and conservatives, and are not ultimately helpful. 

Wiegel's question is rhetorical.  Even elementary grades do not use "true or false" questions anymore.

This group taught me to describe IS first before giving it a name.  So, thank you for your question of clarity.  But I would no call Bill's folks "liberal".

Jaime
in China

-----Original Message-----
From: via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: oe <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 2:15 am
Subject: OE Digest, Vol 31, Issue 3

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: [Dialogue]  Wrong about social change?? (Bill Parker via OE)

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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 12:24:09 -0500
From: Bill Parker via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: "Nancy Trask" <nancytrask at rocketmail.com>,	"James Wiegel"
	<jfwiegel at yahoo.com>,	"Colleague Dialogue"
	<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>,	"Order Ecumenical Community"
	<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue]  Wrong about social change??
Message-ID: <13B60BA8ABC24A728D017A5C3B516DAC at BillParkerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Nancy,
Sorry for the delay. I just now saw your request for a "little more" on the 
fallacy of the liberal form of doing.  Years ago John Epps presented a paper 
on the "liberal heresy". It is archived so you can get access to it. He 
described the dynamic very well.

Today I see and experience a type of this "heresy" broadly among some 
liberal and progressive people. They see the problem, understand what causes 
it, grasp that it is systemic in nature, find who to blame for it, then 
resort to symbolic gestures of outrage, to themselves and sometimes to 
whomever is to be blamed. They then go on with their lives as normal because 
of the symbolic gesture they feel like they have addressed the issue. They 
do this without any effort, or even commitment, to dealing with the systemic 
situation underlying the problem, building transitional models, or 
acknowledging a movement is essential before anything can happen to alter 
and sustain the situation.

Hope this adds a little to the phrase.

Bill

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nancy Trask" <nancytrask at rocketmail.com>
To: "James Wiegel" <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>; "Colleague Dialogue" 
<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>; "Order Ecumenical Community" 
<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; "Bill Parker" <bparker175 at cox.net>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Wrong about social change??

Hey Bill -
Say a little more about "This is the fallacy of the "liberal" form of 
doing."
Nancy Trask

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 9/29/14, Bill Parker via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> 
wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Wrong about social change??
 To: "James Wiegel" <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>, "Colleague Dialogue" 
<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>, "Order Ecumenical Community" 
<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
 Date: Monday, September 29, 2014, 11:10 AM

 If only it were that simple. Doing social change  work and getting social 
change done are two very different  realities. Social
 change comes out of a movement toward a different future which shows up 
from a multitude of independent faces from the human community.
 Holding elected representives accountable is certainly one aspect of that 
but its "tail is not large enough to wag the dog." Also, social change is
 more than just change but it is change that cannot be reversed as soon as 
people's interest moves on to something else.
 This is the fallacy of the "liberal" form of doing.

   ----- Original Message -----

   From:
   James
   Wiegel via OE
   To: Colleague
 Dialogue ; Order
   Ecumenical Community
   Sent: Sunday,
 September 28, 2014 1:17
   PM
   Subject: [Oe List
 ...] Wrong about social
   change??

   "I've been doing social change work for more
 than 40 years, and I know
   that organizing people to hold our elected officials
 accountable is the only
   thing that actually makes change." Wenonah
 Hauter.

   True or false. Please comment

   Jim Wiegel

   Those who have the most rigorously tested answers
 will not drive the
   future of learning; those who pursue the most meaningful
 questions will.
   Mathew Abrams

   401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona
   85353
   Tel. 011-623-936-8671 or 011-623-363-3277
   jfwiegel at yahoo.com
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