<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Oakland galaxy? 1:40 am?? And a looong reply!<div><br></div><div>I am just asking the question from the perspective of “culture” — if you will, the CS side of the old Ecumenical Institute curriculum. <br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">Jim Wiegel</span><br><div>
<p class="p1"><span class="s1" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">“…the long work<br>
of turning their lives<br>
into a celebration<br>
is not easy. Come </span><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); font-size: 19pt;">and let us talk</span><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); font-size: 19pt;">“. </span></p><p class="p1"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); font-size: 19pt;">The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver</span></p></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Apr 12, 2025, at 1:40 AM, rev.bud@mac.com wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">I had assumed that the claim of encountering another world had been a valid claim. Having read recently a couple books by Lesslie Newbigin (Foolishness to the Greeks and The Gospel in a Pluralist Society) it has made me wonder whether that claim is valid. Newbigin raises the question <div><br></div><div>"<span style="color: rgb(38, 38, 38); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">how can we move from the place where we explain the gospel in terms of our modern scientific world - view to the place where we explain our modern scientific world - view from the point of view of the gospel ?</span><font color="#262626"><span style="caret-color: rgb(38, 38, 38);">”</span></font></div><div><font color="#262626"><span style="caret-color: rgb(38, 38, 38); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#262626"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">David Kettle in a book based on Newbigin’s thinking, “Western Culture in a Gospel Context” states even more clearly the difficulty of not having our religion thinking subverted by Western values writing:</span></font></div><div><font color="#262626"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></font></div><div><p style="margin: 0px 0px 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;">"When the Western individual is converted to Christ, this is at once a conversion of them from their culture and a conversion within them of their culture. This paradox lies at the heart of this book, in relation to the cultural context of “the West.” </p>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;">For Western Christians this invites reflection both upon their own culture and upon their own faith: are they converted faithfully from Western culture, and is Western culture properly converted within them? Or is it rather the case that, unawares, their faith is domesticated to Western culture? Are they unable to see this culture, and their domestication to it, for what they are in the light of Christ? </p>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;">Introducing my topic, I shall first recall what it means to be converted to Christ. For a start, if we profess faith in Christ this does not, in itself, show we are converted: professing Christians may in practice refuse to be responsive to God and allow God to change the way they think, behave, and feel—their whole way of seeing others, themselves, and the world—in ways that God desires. As part of this, they may remain or become captive to cultural beliefs, passions, and worldviews at odds with conversion to Christ. The temptation of cultural captivity to modern Western culture is pervasive among professing Christians in the West today. This, of course, subverts authentic mission."</p><div>How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?</div><div><br></div><div>Grace and peace,</div><div><br></div><div>Bud Tillinghast</div><div>Oakland Galaxy</div><div> <br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 11 Apr 2025, at 23:39, James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div dir="auto">1. Did we actually encounter / (re)discover the other world incthe midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that??<div><br></div><div>2. See below the words for “The Mystery is Everywhere”. Do any of you have a recording of it being sung? I can hear Mary Warren Moffett singing it in my head . </div><div><br></div><div>Thanks<br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">Jim Wiegel</span><br><div><p class="p1"><span class="s1" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">“…the long work<br>
of turning their lives<br>
into a celebration<br>
is not easy. Come </span><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); font-size: 19pt;">and let us talk</span><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); font-size: 19pt;">“. </span></p><p class="p1"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); font-size: 19pt;">The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver</span></p></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br>Begin forwarded message:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><b>From:</b> James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com><br><b>Date:</b> April 11, 2025 at 2:13:37 PM MST<br><b>To:</b> jfwiegel@yahoo.com<br><b>Subject:</b> <b>help</b><br><b>Reply-To:</b> James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com><br><br></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="ydp4184d724yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><div><h1 class="ydpe418a1c4western">
THE MYST'RY IS EVERYWHERE</h1><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt"><i>Tune:
Desert Song</i></font></p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><br>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">The
Myst'ry is everywhere: I'm trapped in awe for e'er and e'er! </font>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">And
I must roam through life with all its care, grasping nought for
certain except my dying. </font>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">Why
should I so driven be to bear with such absurdity? </font>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">Still
I shall die yearning, lost in the wonder of mystery.</font></p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><br>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">The
Myst'ry is everywhere: I'll ne’er escape its awful stare! </font>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">Destroyed,
unveiled, within a searing glare, doomed to live transparent within
my dying. </font>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">Why
am I condemned to see the pow'r of this finality? </font>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">Still
I shall die yearning, lost in the wonder of mystery.</font></p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-right: 1.15in; margin-bottom: 0in">
<br>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">The
Myst'ry is everywhere: and changes all beyond compare. </font>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">It
runs to breathe surprise into the air and I find a strange new life
in my dying. </font>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">Why
should I the chosen be to dance with this vitality? </font>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">Still
I shall die yearning, lost in the wonder of mystery.</font></p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><br>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">The
Myst'ry is everywhere: yet I must doubt this one so fair, </font>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">For
none can ever know its secrets rare and I'll ever be lonely in my
dying. </font>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">Why's
this awful love in me become my sole reality? </font>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><font size="3" style="font-size: 12pt">Still
I shall die yearning, lost in the wonder of mystery.</font></p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><br>
</p><p class="ydpe418a1c4western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in"><br>
</p></div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="ydp4184d724signature"><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><a href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/james-wiegel/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jim Wiegel </a> <br><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div> <span><p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal;" class="ydp209e23c4MsoNormal"><span>The
unknown is what is. And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody
scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all
that. Unknown is what is. Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain
sailing. <span> </span>John Lennon</span></p></span><br></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;background-color:white;">401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353</span><p style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background:white;" class="ydpa512fec3MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">623-363-3277</span><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:'Segoe UI', sans-serif;"></span></p><p style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background:white;" class="ydpa512fec3MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"><a href="mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue;">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:'Segoe UI', sans-serif;"></span></p><p style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background:white;" class="ydpa512fec3MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;"><a href="http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.partnersinparticipation.com</a></span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Dialogue mailing list<br>Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net<br>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></body></html>