<div style="color:black;font: 10pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">We studied Michael Dowd's books at the church from which we retired, have been to several of his seminars with his wife Connie Barlow and hosted them for an event at our church in 2009. That was when he and his wife were travelling "evolutionary evangelists" and living out of van with a "Christian fish symbol and Darwin Fish symbol kissing each other" bumper sticker on the side of the van. He and his work continue to evolve.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ellie </div>
<div>elliestock@aol.com <br>
<br>
<br>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font size="2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Jim via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net><br>
To: Milan Hamilton via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net><br>
Cc: Jim <wtw0bl@new.rr.com><br>
Sent: Fri, Jan 21, 2022 9:47 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism<br>
<br>
<div id="yiv0833996158">
<div>
<div>I, too, have found Micheal Dowd's "Post-doom" series to be both
helpful and inspiring. I have tried answering some of the
questions he asks his guests such as: What are you known for? What
are you passionate about? What are you concerned about? What was
your world view growing up? His mantra is: Grief, Grounding and
Gratitude. One of his mentors is William Catton whom he often
quotes. He reads meaningful books like <u>Overshoot</u> which
can be downloaded from youtube.com using RealPlayer. Dowd is an
ordained minister. He is <span class="yiv0833996158fc-falcon">a Pro-Future
Evangelist. ProFuture Faith.</span></div>
<div><span class="yiv0833996158fc-falcon">Jim Baumbach<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div id="yiv0833996158yqtfd06378" class="yiv0833996158yqt8111223380">
<div class="yiv0833996158moz-cite-prefix">On 1/21/2022 12:49 AM, Milan Hamilton
via OE wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
</blockquote></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0833996158yqtfd47502" class="yiv0833996158yqt8111223380"></div>
<div>
<div id="yiv0833996158yqtfd87506" class="yiv0833996158yqt8111223380">
I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard
with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say
I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was
more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word
elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question
Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell’s Deep
Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation
on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd’s “Post Doom”
series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of
climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos;
third, check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that Reconnects.” These
are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in
one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one
of them.
<div>Humbly, Milan H.<br clear="none">
<div><br clear="none">
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPad</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
<blockquote type="cite">On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM,
Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE
<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="yiv0833996158moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></a> wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" class="yiv0833996158ydp6fc2b37cyahoo-style-wrap">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of
these touched on what is happening to our planet,
which is also what triggered my question. </div>
<div>It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere
over the tipping point into a trajectory that will
bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our
species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change
this, at least till after several decades. So
whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see its
result.</div>
<div>So the question for me is what does it mean to
say Yes to life in this situation and to live out
of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led
to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to
what our life has been and what is going happen?
By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage
and spirit for this. </div>
<div>A related question, how do we tell others what
is in store truthfully and yet not leave them
without hope or drive? </div>
<div>If we live like this, could it be described (in
a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed
to have reservations about this during our RS1
courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about
the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen
illustrates in her email, or something deeper in
that philosophy. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Dharma</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yahoo_quoted_3634648388" class="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT,
James Wiegel via OE <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="yiv0833996158moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></a>
wrote: </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div id="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" class="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608ydpe7361ef2yahoo-style-wrap">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Does anyone recall (have
notes on) the lecture introductions from
RS-1? They were quick and insightful, and
I don't find anything in our archives on
them . . . </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">One intro, maybe on Saturday
afternoon -- would have been an intro to
the freedom lecture / section / holy
spirit / life style was a series of little
triangles . . . </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Everyone lives out of some
sense of their final reality What am I
upagainst in life? what is my situation?</div>
<div dir="ltr">and they have "A word" that
releases them -- gives me the capacity to
live</div>
<div dir="ltr">and a life style that comes
out of that</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Anyway, I think one of them
was the final reality is bad, and the word
was just survive, and the life style was
the stoic</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I don't quite remember the
other ones . . . and the one course I had
on philosophy did not emphasize the
stoics.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608ydpe7361ef2signature">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><a shape="rect" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Jim Wiegel</a>
<br clear="none">
<div dir="ltr" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;" class="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608ydpa512fec3MsoNormal">
</div>
<div> <span></span>
<div style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal;" class="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608ydp209e23c4MsoNormal"><span>The
unknown is what is. And to be
frightened of it is what sends
everybody
scurrying around chasing dreams,
illusions, wars, peace, love,
hate, all
that. Unknown is what is. Accept
that it's unknown, and it's plain
sailing. <span> </span>John
Lennon</span></div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
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<div id="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608ydp37cd0cabyahoo_quoted_3314233036" class="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608ydp37cd0cabyahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div id="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608yqt01839" class="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608yqt9144965256">
<div> On Thursday, January 20, 2022,
07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue
<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="yiv0833996158moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net></a>
wrote: </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div id="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608ydp37cd0cabyiv9111563122">
<div>
<div style="color:black;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial;">
<div> S<font size="2">toic: I'm
fine. <br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: Are you
telling the truth?</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Well,
even if I hurt, what can I
do. I will just bear it.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: Have you
tried what the doctor advised?</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Oh, I
probably will soon. Stop
worrying about me. I'm fine.</font></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><font size="2">Another day--</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: I don't
see how we need to worry about
climate change. It will
destroy us and the rest of
life on the planet soon.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: But
shouldn't we do a few actions
that might help.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Oh, we
are too far gone. The oceans
are rising, the ice is about
gone. We might as well just
enjoy the life we have.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: but what
about our kids and grandkids
and their kids?</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Look.
We are human. The planet it
too far gone. We may as well
just accept it.</font></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><font size="2">Another day--</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Well, I
think we have gone as far as
we can to abolish racism in
the United States.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: I think
there is still a lot of
suffering from racism. I
think we should find some way
to pay reparations.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: You pay
for it. I have some other
things I want to do with our
money.</font></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><font size="2">Another day--</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: Did you
hear about how the Wisconsin
government is giving back some
of their land to the Indians?</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Oh for
Pete Sake. That war is long
over, and we are getting along
fine.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Another day--</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Listen
to those shovels! They are
finishing my work!</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: No, honey,
they are digging your grave.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Another day--</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: They say
that faith is belief in things
not seen.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Ha.
Sounds pretty magic to me!</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Me: But if you
trust that the creative power
of God is in charge, you can
have hope that the future is
open, and we can act!</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Stoic: Naptime
now.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><font size="2">Karen Bueno</font><br clear="none">
</div>
<div> <br clear="none">
</div>
<div> <br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;"><font size="2">-----Original
Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Dharmalingam
Vinasithamby via Dialogue
<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="yiv0833996158moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net></a><br clear="none">
To: OE Listserve
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Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby
<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com" href="mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com" class="yiv0833996158moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><dvinasithamby@yahoo.com></a><br clear="none">
Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27
pm<br clear="none">
Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</font>
<div id="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608ydp37cd0cabyiv9111563122yqt27906" class="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608ydp37cd0cabyiv9111563122yqt5406969833">
<div id="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608ydp37cd0cabyiv9111563122">
<div>
<div style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" class="yiv0833996158ydp161d0735yiv1047450608ydp37cd0cabyiv9111563122yahoo-style-wrap">
<div dir="ltr">Dear
colleagues,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div>
<div>I need help
with an idea I’m
trying to sort
out. If you have
the time and
inclination, I
would love to hear
from you on the
following: <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Saying Yes to
life and Stoicism.
Stoicism seems to
be understood as a
relationship to
life where you
keep going on
despite the odds.
There is also an
inuendo that this
may not be humanly
possible and that
internal pressures
will eventually
cause the person
to crash. What I
want to know is,
was that the
Stoicism that Zeno
founded or merely
a degraded
understanding? Why
did we as an Order
cast it in a
negative light?
What was our beef
with it? Was it a
reaction to the
degraded form or
were we looking at
it in its original
sense?</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
regards</div>
<div dir="ltr">Dharma</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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