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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Good point, Marshall, re: the intended audience for the original Liberal Heresy spin/talk. Many of us who use “getting old” as a justification for increased inaction could well reflect on how the “label” LH applies even now. Am reading Jimmy Carter’s book, <i>A Full Life</i>, and see him as one who has defied that label for his almost-91 years of life.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Marilyn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>W. J. via OE<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 31, 2015 12:16 PM<br><b>To:</b> John P Cock; Randy Williams; Karenbueno<br><b>Cc:</b> oe@lists.wedgeblade.net; dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Breakfast News Conversations...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441036990336_9418"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:black'>Maybe we should write and publish on 'The Conservative Right-Wing Heresies' (note: they are plural). Starting with Fox [so-called] News.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441036990336_9418"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:black'>There could be a interesting correspondence with some 'Liberal Heresy' points. But I note that 'The Liberal Heresy' was addressed to 'us', not to 'them'. In other words, separating the liberal cop-outs from the radical revolutionaries who dare(d) to Do Something (however puny or mistargeted) based on vision/contradiction analysis/proposals/strategy/tactics/implementaries--instead of Doing Nothing.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441036990336_9418"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:black'>Marshall<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441036990336_9418"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:.25in;background:white'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On Monday, August 31, 2015 8:18 AM, John P Cock via Dialogue <<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div id=yiv4101034016><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Does the liberal heresy apply only to our treatment of humans?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv4101034016yqtfd40714><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Randy Williams via Dialogue <<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br><b>Reply-To: </b>Randy Williams <<a href="mailto:randycw1938@gmail.com" target="_blank">randycw1938@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Date: </b>Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:55 AM<br><b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:KarenBueno@aol.com" target="_blank">KarenBueno@aol.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:KarenBueno@aol.com" target="_blank">KarenBueno@aol.com</a>><br><b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>>, "<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div id=yiv4101034016yqtfd51978><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Kind of depends on whether we see ourselves more as an independent national community with a mob at our gates, a kind of "we and them" mentality, or we see an interdependent global community where we're all in it together. IMHO, it's all in the story we tell ourselves. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Randy<br><br>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>On Aug 31, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Karenbueno <<a href="mailto:karenbueno@aol.com" target="_blank">karenbueno@aol.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Good point, Randy. I think the "liberal heresy" today would be that the United States is called to fully accept all immigrants, without conditions. The Trump plan to deport all who are undocumented is the opposite. What might be the "orthodox" belief.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Karen (Wright) Bueno<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Randy Williams via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br>To: Frank Knutson <<a href="mailto:f.knutson@earthlink.net" target="_blank">f.knutson@earthlink.net</a>><br>Cc: Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>>; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br>Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 6:57 am<br>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Breakfast News Conversations...<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="yiv4101034016AOLMsgPart_1.2_73473bc8-9cca-439b-a3f8-ff2077aba54b"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Regarding the liberal heresy, one of the learnings I remember from the study of this paper is that in formulating some of the early creeds of the church, heresy was not a perversion of orthodoxy, but instead heresy preceded and gave rise to orthodoxy. Someone would come forth with a doctrine or tenet or whatever and the establishment would say, "well that's not correct, that's not what we believe." In the process they would be forced to formulate what they did believe, which often would then become the orthodox position. Seen in this light, heresy actually is a contributing factor, the motivation behind the church getting clarity on where it stood. Not sure what we would point to in the social realm as heresy today, but it seems possible that, whatever it is, it could play that same role of forcing us to clarify our own position. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Randy <br><br>Sent from my iPad <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE < <a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \ <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall???? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:teal'><br>"What appears to be a breaking down of civilization<span class=yiv4101034016apple-converted-space> </span><br>may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself."</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span class=yiv4101034016apple-converted-space><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Minion Pro Bold","serif";color:teal'> </span></b></span><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Minion Pro Bold","serif";color:teal'><br> ~<span class=yiv4101034016apple-converted-space> </span></span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Joyce Carol Oates</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><VIKING copy.jpeg> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#FF2600'>❤</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#FF2600'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0433FF'>Frank</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0433FF'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0433FF'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue < <a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that <br>deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. <br>For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere <br>mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. <br>Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of <br>internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. <br>Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," <br>literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and <br>physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. <br>Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! <br>-----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE <br>Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM <br>To: <a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a> ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <br>Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations... <br><br>Also called scripture/news conversations <br><br>You remember them right? <br>random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom <br>what to do about it? <br><br>These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" <br>My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and <br>listening to USA media is curious. <br><br>Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is <br>connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more <br>passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural <br>and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the <br>stream of news. <br><br>My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations <br>no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone <br>has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching <br>an unplayable game. <br><br>Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. <br>"D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done". <br><br>Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal <br>heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary <br>heresy. <br>He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the <br>eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. <br>Anyone remember this paper? <br><br>Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the <br>breakfast news conversation? <br><br>The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days <br>and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to <br>tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and <br>communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re <br>learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, <br>but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that <br>the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is <br>confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of <br>trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those <br>consuming the stories. <br><br>What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as <br>much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? <br><a href="http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/" target="_blank">http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/</a> <br><br><br>Steve <br><br><br><br>-- <br>Steve <br>_______________________________________________ <br>OE mailing list <br><a href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a> <br><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a> <br>_______________________________________________ <br>Dialogue mailing list <br><a href="mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a> <br><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________ <br>OE mailing list <br><a href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a> <br><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div><div id="yiv4101034016AOLMsgPart_2_ea483932-d3f0-4601-ba5d-ea363b293c3f"><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>OE mailing<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a></span></tt><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list <a href="mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a> <a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yqtfd60714><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Dialogue mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>