<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">This paper is an interesting read and gives an insight to what our thinking was way back in 1976! This talk was not given by JWM. My guess would be Gene Marshall, it has his style to it.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It made me think that if I was giving such a talk today those would not be my points. It is not that they don’t, or didn’t, have a validity, but it is not how I experience the heresy today, if you want to call it that.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My four columns would be: </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">1. <b class="">Righteous Demonization</b>. My Facebook gets a lot of these. “If there weren’t all these selfish and stupid people causing all these problems we’d get the job done!”</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">2. <b class="">Focus on Issues, not Contradictions </b>This shows up with a disregard for the systemic nature of life.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">3. <b class="">Winning the argument is more important than solving the problem</b>. Highly located in academia, but a disease possessed by many.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">4. Wisdom does lie in the people who live the situations that need to change. Call it “<b class="">Expertise-ism”</b>.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">These are just four quick ones off the top of my head. But they seem to be more in line with what I encounter than the old ones. There are also points in the ignorance of the role of spirit, symbol, etc. in the change process. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Peace,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Jack</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \</span><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall????</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"></div><span id="cid:580BDA7A-EBB7-4A3D-96B8-52D6914B32F0"><THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx></span><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><b class="" style="font-family: 'Hobo Std'; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Tahoma; color: teal;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">"What appears to be a breaking down of civilization<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself."</span></b><b class="" style="font-family: 'Hobo Std'; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="" style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Minion Pro Bold'; color: teal;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""> ~<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span class="" style="font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Tahoma;">Joyce Carol Oates<o:p class=""></o:p></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><span class=""></span></div></div><span id="cid:BBD2C4A9-CAD7-4E98-BA04-CC63A1F55DC4"><VIKING copy.jpeg></span><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><span class=""></span><font color="#ff2600" class="" style="font-family: 'Hobo Std'; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="" style="font-size: 18px;">❤</span> </font><font color="#0433ff" class="" style="font-family: 'Hobo Std'; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font size="4" class="">Frank</font> </font><font color="#0433ff" class="" style="font-family: 'Hobo Std'; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> </font></div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue <<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that<br class="">deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage.<br class="">For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere<br class="">mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days.<br class="">Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of<br class="">internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services.<br class="">Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known,"<br class="">literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and<br class="">physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging.<br class="">Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board!<br class="">-----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE<br class="">Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM<br class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA<br class="">Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...<br class=""><br class="">Also called scripture/news conversations<br class=""><br class="">You remember them right?<br class="">random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom<br class="">what to do about it?<br class=""><br class="">These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose"<br class="">My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and<br class="">listening to USA media is curious.<br class=""><br class="">Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is<br class="">connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more<br class="">passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural<br class="">and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the<br class="">stream of news.<br class=""><br class="">My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations<br class="">no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone<br class="">has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching<br class="">an unplayable game.<br class=""><br class="">Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do.<br class="">"D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done".<br class=""><br class="">Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal<br class="">heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary<br class="">heresy.<br class="">He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the<br class="">eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly.<br class="">Anyone remember this paper?<br class=""><br class="">Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the<br class="">breakfast news conversation?<br class=""><br class="">The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days<br class="">and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to<br class="">tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and<br class="">communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re<br class="">learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries,<br class="">but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that<br class="">the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is<br class="">confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of<br class="">trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those<br class="">consuming the stories.<br class=""><br class="">What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as<br class="">much as they cover stories about devastation and despair?<br class=""><a href="http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/" class="">http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/</a><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Steve<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Steve<br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">OE mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br class="">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Dialogue mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br class=""><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net" class="">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">OE mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>