<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Sunny,</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>You are precisely on target with your reference to Paul Hawken's book (and as must be evident from my earlier comments, I'm not opposed to "God talk" as long as it is transparent.) Hawken's "largest movement in the world" embodied in millions of "mini-movements," plus the Arab Spring, the Occupy Movement, and who knows how many more, all point to the hope that abounds in the midst of despair. In his very last paragraph Hawken gives a slightly different take on the approach:</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>"Our house is literally burning, and it is only logical that environmentalists expect the social justice movement to get on the environmental bus. But it is the other way around; the only way we
are going to put out the fire is to get on the social justice bus and heal our wounds, because in the end, there is only one bus."</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>I know this is counter to what several on this listserv have been saying, but it is a point worth considering. A bit of consolation here is, no one has to start a new movement. It's already underway. So <u>one</u> question is, how would we who care serve and participate in the change that's already happening? T</span><span>he 32 national ICAs around the globe are working on this, as are many others of us outside those particular institutional structures. To ask the question of whether it's enough or on time is paralyzing. We just have to do what we know to do without much focus on the outcome, which we've always known we can't control
anyway.</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>Randy</span></div><div></div><div> </div><div>"Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the course of being in the world; not to be supported by it, but to bring it to reality as it desires."<br>-Martin Buber (adapted)<br></div> <div style="font-family: tahoma, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="hr" contentEditable="false" readonly="true"></div> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Sunny Walker <sunwalker@comcast.net><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> 'Colleague Dialogue' <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday,
July 8, 2012 9:11 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?<br> </font> </div> <wbr><div id="yiv1137885037">
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Might I suggest we consider Paul Hawken’s
wisdom from his book “Blessed Unrest.” There are movements aplenty around the
world, all doing some or all of what needs to be done in their own best way in
their own locales. To take a Biblical language approach (can you tell I’ve been
working closely with a local church this past year?) It could be worth praying
for their ultimate success according to God’s will. (Now of course, demythologizing
may well be needed!). </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">If you need a sense of the size of this
movement, see Paul’s Ted Talk, just under 6 minutes:</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1fiubmOqH4" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1fiubmOqH4</a>
</span></font><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"></span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><i><i><font color="navy" size="5" face="Viner Hand ITC"><span style='color: navy; font-family: "Viner Hand ITC"; font-size: 18pt;' class="ms__id1154">Sunny</span></font></i></i><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy;"></span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: navy; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">Sunny
Walker </span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy;"></span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">SunWalker Enterprises</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy;"></span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">303-587-3017 (cell)</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy;"></span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">303-671-0704 (home/office)</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy;"></span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;"><a href="mailto:sunwalker@comcast.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:sunwalker@comcast.net">sunwalker@comcast.net</a></span></font><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"></span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">Aurora</span></font><font color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Calibri;">, CO</span></font><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"></span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font color="purple" size="3" face="Pristina"><span style="color: purple; font-family: Pristina; font-size: 12pt;">No mattter how far
you've gone down the wrong road, turn back. ~ Turkish Proverb</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;"> dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net
[mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>David Zahrt<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, July 08, 2012 3:52
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Colleague
Dialogue<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List
...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?</span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><u><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I found Bill's note thought provoking.</span></font></u></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">We recognized a need for the institutional church to be renewed. We
joined in a movement of people who aspired to renew the institutional church.
In about a decade we went out the door of the church into the life of the
community. In 20+ years we dispersed. Did it make a difference? I find there
are many answers to that question,</span></font></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Its possible to recognize the need for a change in the 'consume-and-throw-away-lifestyle'.
It would be done so that the planet on which we live has the capacity to
sustain us and future generations of all life--animal and vegetable--on the
planet. Consumption is only one of the issues. Another enormous issue is population
balance.</span></font></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">If we were to recognize the need and find ourselves moved to be engaged
is it possible to identify the movement of people who will be most likely to
make a difference? Of course its possible to wait and see what happens! I know
20-year olds that are convinced that they will see the end of the world in
their lifetime.</span></font></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Who among us is willing to identify the movement, recruit member, and
design or specify the direction of the movement?</span></font></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font color="#000099" size="5" face="Arial"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-family: Arial; font-size: 18pt;">New
Booklet, Video Answer Common Questions about Climate Change</span></font><font size="1" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;"></span></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><img style="margin-bottom: 5px; margin-left: 10px;" title="Climate Change Booklet cover small" border="0" align="right" width="32" height="32"><font color="#000099" size="1" face="Arial"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">The National Research Council has released a new booklet
and video designed to help the public gain a better understanding of what is
known about climate change. The new resources are based on a number of
independent reports from the National Research Council that represent the
consensus of experts who have reviewed hundreds of studies describing many
years of accumulating evidence. </span></font><font size="1" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;"></span></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font color="#000099" size="1" face="Arial"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">A </span></font><font size="1" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;"><a title="36-page booklet" href="http://click.newsletters.nas.edu/?ju=fe2d157575640774741279&ls=fdeb1c787062077e75137673&m=fef81279746700&l=fe89157471600d7a7c&s=fe171c79746d037a7d1675&jb=ffcf14&t=" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="#000099"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">36-page booklet</span></font></a><font color="#000099"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> answers commonly asked questions about the
science of climate change in three parts. The booklet lays out the
evidence of climate change being observed around the world, summarizes
projections of future climate changes and impacts expected in this century and
beyond, and examines how science can help inform choices about managing and
reducing the risks posed by climate change. The booklet is downloadable from
the </span></font><a title="Climate Change at the Academies website" href="http://click.newsletters.nas.edu/?ju=fe35157575640774741370&ls=fdeb1c787062077e75137673&m=fef81279746700&l=fe89157471600d7a7c&s=fe171c79746d037a7d1675&jb=ffcf14&t=" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="#000099"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Climate Change at the Academies
website</span></font></a><font color="#000099"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">.
Later this summer, hard copies will be available in sets of two from the
National Academies Press (free, except for costs of shipping and handling).
An announcement will be made when this becomes available.</span></font></span></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font color="#000099" size="1" face="Arial"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">A
new </span></font><font size="1" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;"><a title="video" href="http://click.newsletters.nas.edu/?ju=fe34157575640774741371&ls=fdeb1c787062077e75137673&m=fef81279746700&l=fe89157471600d7a7c&s=fe171c79746d037a7d1675&jb=ffcf14&t=" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="#000099"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">video</span></font></a><font color="#000099"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> , <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Climate Change: Lines of Evidence,</span></b> follows
Part 1 of the booklet. It explains the lines of evidence that have built
the current scientific consensus about climate change and its causes. The
video is available on YouTube in full length (26 minutes) and also in shorter
pieces, segmented by the questions being addressed.</span></font></span></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Climate Reality is having a 3-day
workshop in SFO in August. I'm planning to go. Will find out if they have
designed a direction that seems worth engaging in!</span></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font size="1" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">David</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Bill Parker <<a href="mailto:bparker175@cox.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:bparker175@cox.net">bparker175@cox.net</a>>
wrote:</span></font></div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;">Before we get too deep in our entanglements with global
disaster and what God is and is not going to do about it, it might be helpful
to put some concretion to the dilemna. </span></font></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;">We need 19 million barrels of oil every morning at 6:00 just
to maintain what 300 million people need to live through that day and then we
need another 19 million barrels by 6 am the next morning and on and on it goes
until it climbs to 20 million. That is just the
USA . The whole world has to have 83
million barrels every morning at 6 am. </span></font></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;">Take a look around you. Everything you see in your office,
bedroom, kitchen, transportation, your entire house is petroleum based or
dependent upon some portion of those barrels. Hospitals, schools, all
technology equipments, communications, food supply...I could go on, but these
things are not going to change significantly, they can't change. Sure, they can
be reduced some, maybe eventually a lot, but there will not be a significant
change. </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;">Why? Because we have not finished the structural revolution.
The climate situation is a product of the breakdown of the social reality we
live in. The economic, political, and cultural realities are unsustainable and
long before the climate change destroys the earth's population, the economic,
political, and cultural dimensions (those parts we can do something about) will
destroy it first. We may think big oil keeps anyone from addressing the climate
situation, but we are the ones fueling big oil. We may think Walmart killed
small towns but small towns abandoned local shops and spent their money in
Walmart. </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;">My point is that the world needs a body of people who 1)
embraces the possibility of radical change; 2) unites the forces of
transformation; 3) works toward local empowerment; 4) prepares the emerging
generation of leaders; 5) reveals the deepest aspects of being human within
faith traditions, religious or not; 7) focuses on critical points of
non-cooperation and non-violent opposition; 8) utilizes a process of constant
strategy development, or we might say "evergreening development". </span></font></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;">This body of people would have many faces, you know,
like the Seven Faces of Dr. Lao. Many faces, one people. This is another way of
saying that what needs to be done, needs to be done, regardless of whether
humankind will survive or not. On a personal level, isn't it a little like
saying I am going to die no matter what I do so it doesn't matter what I do.
I believe that given a healthy social process, we could dramatically
change course and stop adding to the disaster and simultaneously develop
effective adaptation efforts to reduce the impact of what we cannot stop.</span></font></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;">So, who are these people going to be? Who is going to make
up the human community that is networked to get this done? It may need to have
many faces in each of the processes. Like a local face, a University face, an
inter-faith face, a leadership face, a church face, and economic alternative
face, a public education face, a public health face, or a human reformation
face, and finally, a climate response face! I think of Gilles' work a couple of
years ago on the guild, but focused, radicalized, strategic, firm in commitment
for a viable human future!</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;">Bill </span></font></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; border-style: none none none solid; border-color: currentColor currentColor currentColor black; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.3pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 3pt;">
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">----- Original Message ----- </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228);" class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> <a title="geowanda@earthlink.net" href="mailto:geowanda@earthlink.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:geowanda@earthlink.net">George Holcombe</a> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">To:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> <a title="dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">Colleague Dialogue</a> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> Saturday, July 07,
2012 6:06 PM</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> Re: [Dialogue] [Oe
List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Sometimes being realistic is more than skeptical. Jim's mention
of climate change for me certainly is a game changer regarding the right
question. Climate scientist are not that rosy about the future, and with
the greatest polluters ignoring the data it does not hold much promise.
Jean Watts' husband, Bob, could probably give us more data here.
The increase in heat, shifting seasons, intensity of storms, rising seas
and all the things our media does not cover, e.g. South Sea Islanders seeking
to migrate to New Zealand and Australia because they are losing ground month by
month, even here in our garden we have insects that were confined to the South
of us now showing up. The intensity of Monsoon seasons which is
destroying top soil among other things, that our colleague, Rupert Barnes, used
to trace around the world in the 80's and 90's, the expanding population and
the shortage of water, the list goes on and on. I understand that
Climatologists are concerned about the CO2 in sea waters, where it is and what
it's doing, and rising acidity. </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I remember we had an illustration about the guy being chased by the
bear and falling into the well clinging to a rope that a rat is gnawing away.
With Theology and Philosophy being outflanked by Science disciplines, I
begin to wonder if the "meaning of life" issues we enjoy tossing
around is any longer at the heart of the issue. Are we left with
preparing for future extinction, whatever that looks like, or attempting to
rectify the damages we've done to mother earth in hopes she changes her mind.
Do we really have a wider range of options or questions?</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13.5pt;">George Holcombe<br>
14900 Yellowleaf Tr.<br>
Austin , TX
78728<br>
Mobile <a href="" rel="nofollow">512/252-2756</a><br>
<a href="mailto:geowanda@earthlink.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:geowanda@earthlink.net">geowanda@earthlink.net</a></span></font></div>
</div>
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<div style="margin-bottom: 13.5pt;" class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13.5pt;">Hope appeareth, but it is not
your Hope—you do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth.
It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it just appeareth! You do not
even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there
is absolutely nothing to justify any hope? ~Joseph W.
Mathews</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span> </font></div></span><div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On Jul 7, 2012, at 12:17 PM, R Williams wrote:</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<br>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">Jim and Jim,</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">I find myself wanting to be realistic without being
skeptical and thinking that the situation is hopeless. Jim W., you
mention Walter Brueggemann's book <i><i><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma;" class="ms__id1353">The Prophetic Imagination.</span></font></i></i>
Brueggemann suggests, as I understand what he is saying, that the task of
the ancient prophets was to imagine a future that was an alternative to the
dominant cultural reality of the time, and to narrate that alternative in such
a way that the people would participate in its emergence. By
"imagination" he meant the ability to discern what YHWH was bringing
into being.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">In the sequel, called <i><i><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma;" class="ms__id1359">The Practice of Prophetic Imagination</span></font></i></i>,
Brueggemann says the following:</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><i><i><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;" class="ms__id1363">Can YHWH create, yet again, a new history for
Israel , after
the old history has come to a dismal end? Here we are at the deepest
theological question of biblical faith--is the God of faith contained within
and informed by what the world knows to be possible? Or is it within the
capacity of God to create a newness that defies the categories of the
"possible" that are commonly and reasonably accepted in the world?</span></font></i></i><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma;"></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">He then refers Karl Barth's second volume of <i><i><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma;" class="ms__id1371">Church Dogmatics.</span></font></i></i></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><i><i><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;" class="ms__id1375">Karl Barth...faces the issue of what is "real"
and what is "possible..." Barth's insistence that the
issue of "possibility" must not claim to precede the question
of "reality'" is crucial. And because God is free, much is
possible with God that would not otherwise be possible.</span></font></i></i><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma;"></span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">Brueggemann continues:</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><i><i><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;" class="ms__id1385">It is useful to recognize, in our own context, that when
faith is contained within modern rationality, there is a rejection of the God
who can "do the impossible." The present casting of that
rejection concerns "an interventionist God" who violates our notion
of the possible... The question left...is a question about the freedom of
God that we seek to ponder without any recourse to crude supernaturalism.</span></font></i></i><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma;"></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">By "crude supernaturalism" Brueggemann is
pointing to something like uttering magical prayers for a
person to be cured of an illness, or a town to be saved from violent weather,
etc. with the expectation that God will intervene in a spontaneous, spasmodic
instant to the immediate situation and prayers will be
answered. He does not, however, dismiss the idea that God
is an interventionist. What he does suggest is that, rather than
spontaneous, God is an active player in human history and is continuously
intervening in every "now," in the midst of which all things are always
being made new. He concludes:</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><i><i><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;" class="ms__id1395">In each new articulation,
Israel must ask again in wonderment
if God, in God's freedom, can push beyond ordinary "possibility" to
the "impossible..." The tradition of faith continues to be
dazzled by specific memories, in narrative form, of instances in which the
"impossibility of God" has overridden the "possibility" of
human wisdom...that exhibit God's faithful power beyond our expectation or
explanation.</span></font></i></i><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma;"></span></font></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">Thus the role of the prophet is to discern the
"possible impossibility" (my words) that is emerging in the
midst of the death of the old, "narrate" it in a compelling
fashion, and participate in "bring(ing) it to reality as it
desires." (Martin Buber's phrase.) So to bring this back to where we
started, perhaps <u>the</u> question in all of this, and perhaps a
timeless one at that, is "What is the newness that is seeking to
emerge in our time and, what story shall we tell about it, and what
is required of us to participate in having it emerge?"</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">Randy</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">"Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the
course of being in the world; not to be supported by it, but to bring it to
reality as it desires."<br>
-Martin Buber (adapted)</span></font></div>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><b><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> James Wiegel <<a href="mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Colleague
Dialogue <<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 6, 2012 8:09 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List
...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Wow. Thanks, Jim. Someone on this list
recommended Prophetic Imagination by Walter Bruggemann, and I found it as an
ebook and downloaded and read it. He is very much in line with your
perspective, and points to the experience of the prophets and their role and
function as what we need. Since reading it, I have been saying to
myself, we are moving into a prophetic moment.<br>
<br>
Jim Wiegel<br>
<br>
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is hard to verify
their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln<br>
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Upcoming public course opportunities:<br>
ToP Facilitation Methods, Sept 11-12, 2012<br>
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in 2012-3. Program begins on Nov 14-16, 2012 <br>
See short video <a href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55</a> and
website for further details.<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Fri, 7/6/12, Jim Baumbach <i><span style="font-style: italic;"><<a href="mailto:wtw0bl@new.rr.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:wtw0bl@new.rr.com">wtw0bl@new.rr.com</a>></span></i></span></b> wrote:</span></font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
From: Jim Baumbach <<a href="mailto:wtw0bl@new.rr.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:wtw0bl@new.rr.com">wtw0bl@new.rr.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?<br>
To: " Colleague Dialogue "
<<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br>
Date: Friday, July 6, 2012, 4:55 PM</span></font></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Certainly Boulding was aware of some of the ominous
crises and saw within them a potential for extinction of our human
species. But several other crises are also pending including global
warming (environmental change), unending wars, physical and chemical
pollution, droughts and starvation, declining water sources, etc. My
question was not intended to be supercilious but as a thought regarding how
fragile our own current existence is. Measured in a geologic time
frame, the total presence of human life is so minuscule as to be in all probability
essentially zero. Yet within that time frame, human beings have been
able to so threaten their own existence that one can hardly imagine any other
life form as suicidal. Despite all of the dire scientific projections
I, for one, am unable to stop doing exactly what I, and many like me, have
been doing for decades and centuries--consuming the Earth's resources in
unsustainable amounts. And now the populations of
China and
India are also anticipating doing
what I am doing! I don't see anything changing so profoundly that we will
reverse our present course. There are, of course, many band aid-type
remedies such as alternative energy sources but these only prolong this
process. Is it possible to change human nature to such an extent that
we, in Biblical tradition when Jonah proclaimed disaster to Nineveh :
"...Then tidings reached the king of
Nineveh , and he arose from his throne,
removed his robe, and covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And
he made proclamation and published through Nineveh, "By the decree of
the king and his nobles: Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste
anything; let them not feed, or drink water, but let man and beast be covered
with sackcloth, and let them cry mightily to God; yea, let every one turn
from his evil way and from the violence which is in his hands." (Jonah
3:3-8 RSV), actually change our habits? Without this dramatic
turn-around possibly our question will be: "How do we prepare all
human life to face the inevitable extinction of our species?" Jim
Baumbach </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On 7/6/2012 3:56 PM, James Wiegel wrote: </span></font></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" type="cite">
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<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">I was just reminded of an old, old, friend,
Kenneth Boulding, and a chapter from his book, The Meaning of the Twentieth
Century -- The Great Transition, published in 1964. He described this
"great transition" thusly: </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><b><font size="6" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 24pt; font-weight: bold;">The Great Transition (1964)</span></font></b></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The twentieth century might be described as the
crucial central period in the third great transition in the state of
mankind. The first great transition was from the paleolithic to the
neolithic about ten thousand years ago, which was characterized by the
invention of agriculture, the domestication of animals, and the development
of a settled life in villages. The second great transition, sometimes
called the urban revolution, about five thousand years ago, was
characterized by the development of political power and the centralization
of the food surplus from agriculture in cities. This is the transition from
neolithic agriculture to civilizations. What is underway now is a third
great transition, in which civilization is passing away and a new order of
society altogether, which I have sometimes called post-civilized but which
perhaps deserves the name of the Developed Society, is coming into being.
The twentieth century is the crucial midstage of this transition which will
determine very largely whether it will be made successful or not. </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">HERE ARE SOME PARAGRAPHS FROM THE FINAL
CHAPTER. I FOUND THEM ON THE GOLDEN PATHWAYS: </span></font></div>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;">
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">The fact of the great transition is not in
dispute. Almost anyone in middle life today has simply to look back to his
own childhood, or still more to the days of his grandparents, to realize
that we are living in a world in which there is an enormous rate of change.
If anyone in an advanced society today were to suddenly thrust back into
the world of only a hundred years ago, he would feel utterly alien and
strange. A considerable part of his vocabulary would be meaningless to the
people around him. He would find it hard to adapt to the inconveniences and
to the restricted life which would have to lead. He would feel indeed in an
alien society.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;">
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;">
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">....................................................</span></font></div>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;">
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">I, therefore, have no hesitation in recommending
the attitude toward the great transition which I have described as critical
acceptance. There may be times when we wish nostalgically that it had never
started, for then at least the danger that the evolutionary experiment in
this part of the universe would be terminated would be more remote. Now that
the transition is under way, however, there is no going back on it. We must
learn to use its enormous potential for good rather than for evil, and we
must learn to diminish and eventually eliminate the dangers which are
inherent in it. If I had to sum up the situation in a sentence I would say
that the situation has arisen because of the development of certain methods
of reality testing applied to our images of nature. If we are to ride out
the transition successfully we must apply these or similar methods for
reality testing to our images of man and his society.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;">
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">There is in the world today an "invisible
college" of people in many different countries and many different
cultures, who have this vision of the nature of the transition through
which we are passing and who are determined to devote their lives to
contributing toward its successful fulfillment. Membership in this college
is consistent with many different philosophical, religious, and political
positions. It is a college without a founder and without a president,
without buildings and without organization. Its founding members might have
included a Jesuit like Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a humanist like Aldous
Huxley, a writer of science fiction like H. G. Wells, and it might even
have given honorary degrees to Adam Smith, Karl Marx, Pope John XXIII, and
even Khrushchev and John F. Kennedy. Its living representatives are still a
pretty small group of people. I think, however, that it is they who hold
the future of the world in their hands or at least in their minds.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;">
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">For this invisible college I am an unashamed
propagandist and I confess without a blush that this book is a tract. Our
precious little planet, this blue green cradle of life with its rosy
mantle, is in one of the most critical stages of its whole existence. It is
in a position of immense danger and immense potentiality. There are no
doubt many experiments in evolution going on in different parts of this big
universe. But this happens to be my planet and I am very much attached to
it, and I am desperately anxious that this particular experiment should be
a success. If this be ethnocentrism, then let me be ethnocentric! I am
pretty sure, however, that it will not be a success unless something is
done. There is danger both of the bang of nuclear detonation and of the
whimper of exhausted overpopulation, and either would mean an end of the
evolutionary process in these parts. If man were merely capable of
destroying himself, one could perhaps bear the thought. One could at least
console oneself with the thought of elementary justice, that if man does
destroy himself it is his own silly fault. He is captain, however, of a
frai1 and delicate vessel, and in the course of destroying himself he might
easily destroy the vessel that is, the planet which carries him, with its
immense wealth and variety of evolutionary freight and evolutionary
potential. This makes the dangers of the transition doubly intolerable, and
demands a desperate effort to remove them.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<br>
Jim Wiegel<br>
<br>
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is hard to verify
their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln<br>
<br>
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program is available in Phoenix
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<br>
--- On <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Fri, 7/6/12, R Williams <i><span style="font-style: italic;"><rcwmbw@yahoo.com></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
From: R Williams <rcwmbw@yahoo.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE
DAYS?<br>
To: " Order Ecumenical Community "
<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, " Colleague
Dialogue " <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net><br>
Date: Friday, July 6, 2012, 11:30 AM</span></font></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">Jim,</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">By "peace" I meant something more than
the absence of war. I suppose I meant something like "with
civility," " with mutual respect," "acknowledging the
dignity and worth of all." This may be idealistic but without it
I am skeptical that we can continue. The by-product of this kind of
peace is sustainability, so my statement may have been a bit redundant.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">I agree with Wayne
up to a point. I believe there is really one moral issue at a
time, but there must be many ways to describe it and thus to
articulate the question. With the way issues are so inter-related,
it's difficult to talk about one without eventually
getting into most of the others, and probably even more
difficult to finally boil it down to "the" underlying
root/moral issue of the time. I would have to say that the way
we articulated it in the 70's as the disparity between the 85/15, or today
maybe the 99/1, isn't that far off base for today as well.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">One thing I do feel fairly certain about. Whereas
in RS-1 days we asked, "Who am I?" "What do I?"
and "How be I?"--today I would insist that the
question, whatever it is, is not an "I" question, but rather
a "we" question.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">Randy</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;">"Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the
course of being in the world; not to be supported by it, but to bring it to
reality as it desires." -Martin Buber (adapted) </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><b><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> James Wiegel
<jfwiegel@yahoo.com><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Colleague
Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>;
Order Ecumenical Community
<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 6, 2012
12:33 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Oe List ...] WHAT IS
THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?</span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv1137885037MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS? Over
coffee, this morning, i recopied the emails from this thread and tried to
narrow down to just the questions that were posed. I think i missed an
email that Lee Early was responding to in his message. A couple of
reflections: Randy, in yours, i was struggling with the phrase
"in peace", wondering, a bit like the word "church" or
"religious" what that might point to that would seem true to life
vs. sort of an ideal future. Wayne, your response that there may not be
"a" question, but many and we each have to figure out our own for
ourselves got me to reflecting on the evident complicatedness of things in
a systemic or interconnected world. My auto mechanic was explaining
to me how to simply fix the health care system in the US, and your comment
came up for me, and i said that is a good idea, but i think we are looking
too often for simple silver bullet solutions when thngs are actually much
more complicated. And that made sense to both of us and moved the
conversation on. Jim Baumbach's question put me back on my heels .
"How do I get you to change your mind and do what I think is
right?" then, when in linking it with Bill Parker's notion that
none of this is new, and why haven't we all woken up? Got me thinking, at least
on the liberal or progressive side, whether the new religion arising is the
religion of human rights . . . Progressives, at least, seem to hold these
as sacred and as a moral obligation to be enforced. I could go on, but my
eggs are getting cold, and the slice of cantelope from Judy's garden is
calling. THE GIST AS I SEE IT Mary Hampton: Enough, all ready, its
too good to miss and I am not ready to edit. Good stuff, folks! Ken
Gilgren: why am I here? What am I doing? How am I being? What
quickens the current action of my soul? what was the question again?
Wayne Nelson : What are the pivotal moral
issues of our moment? I think there are likely to be several. Of
course there are many, many but there are probably some major ones.
To reduce it to a single one makes it too abstract and denies the obvious
complexity. We all have to name 'the moral issue of our time.'
There's not likely to be one for everyone. It's a job we all have to do.
Bill Parker: What are the warning signs of the destruction and
endangerment of the entire human community? Then ask, what is the
underlying question to be addressed and how it can be addressed. Why
are people not being awakened to the clear, obvious truth of our crisis?
Secondly, what methods must we develop or employ to radically reveal this
all encompassing truth? John Cock: My take: If it does not have
something like "on behalf of a transformed Earth community" in
the statement, it is the WRONG right question, moral issue, or
vocation. Lee Early: "Who is Tiger Woods?", What is his
mission? Can we re-answer the second question? Mission, social
pioneer, church, college, league, crimson line and movement? The
answer to the question of mission will carry the first of who. (At
least here in the West.) Sometimes the question of mission
changes. Sometimes by chance and sometimes on purpose. What is
our mission TODAY? Randy Williams: In reflecting on the dialogue
around what is "the question," I realized we really were assuming
two questions. How may "we" (all species) live together
on this planet in peace, in a way that secures life for future
generations? What is the new face, form and mission of the
"movement" (the religious, the invisible college, the church with
a little"c," ) and what stories, style and symbols will sustain
it? Jan Sanders: What are the key images of the future of evolution?
Steve Harrington: You had to say it, eh? What does it look like
to be the Sensitive & Responsive. To what concerns? where? Karen Bueno:
"How do we motivate the sensitive and reponsive ones who understand
that the survival of the people of the earth and the earth itself depends
on our working together to make that survival possible?" I like
the idea of striving for a T-shirt phrase, like "Be one of those who
dare to live the future now.", as someone suggested. David
Walters: in the midst of a malaise of helplessness and an established
/ controlling economic and political elite, what can we do to support and
help to form the emerging groups and movements (both the Tea Party and the
Occupy movement) to be both effective and inclusive? Jack Gilles:
Given the stance that "History rides on the back of the
religious" that we embodied and lived..... "Who are the
'religious' today, where would you look to find them, what are the marks
that tell you so, and what might we share (and how) with them so that they
are empowered and connected?". The "we" in the
question should refer to "those of us who are scattered" and who
will take seriously the answers. Janice Ulangca: In this 50th
year of EI/ICA, some of the questions to live with: Considering what
we were/are/might be, what is our calling? What are we called to
know/do/be? What are some of the important partnerships the future
needs? Missed the name: What was Neibhur's line? (and how do you
spell his name?) Something about the sensitive and something ones.
Nancy Lanphear: What is " MY GREAT WORK (IS) WHERE MY OWN GREAT
JOY INTERSECTS WITH EARTH'S GREAT NEED" ....perhaps EARTH could be
stretched to all my relations, the universe, life .... Jan and Steve:
Considering what we were/are/might be, what is our calling? What are
we called to know/do/be? Jan: What are some of the important
partnerships the future needs? Jim Baumbach: "How do I get you
to change your mind and do what I think is right?" Karen Bueno:
"How are we to live together and preserve this planet for the
future?" Jim Wiegel Jfwiegel@yahoo.com “One cannot live in the
afternoon of life according to the program of life’s morning; for what was
great in the morning will be of little importance in the evening, and what
in the morning was true will at evening have become a lie.” – Carl Jung
Partners in Participation Upcoming public course opportunities: ToP
Facilitation Methods, Sept 11-12, 2012 ToP Strategic Planning, Oct 9-10,
2012 The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday- Sept 7, 2012
Facilitation Mastery : Our Mastering the Technology of Participation
program is available in Phoenix in 2012-3. Program begins on Nov 14-16,
2012 See short video <a href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55</a>
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