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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Before we get too deep in our entanglements with global
disaster and what God is and is not going to do about it, it might be helpful to
put some concretion to the dilemna. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>We need 19 million barrels of oil every morning at 6:00
just to maintain what 300 million people need to live through that day and then
we need another 19 million barrels by 6 am the next morning and on and on it
goes until it climbs to 20 million. That is just the USA. The whole world has to
have 83 million barrels every morning at 6 am. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Take a look around you. Everything you see in your office,
bedroom, kitchen, transportation, your entire house is petroleum based or
dependent upon some portion of those barrels. Hospitals, schools, all technology
equipments, communications, food supply...I could go on, but these things are
not going to change significantly, they can't change. Sure, they can be reduced
some, maybe eventually a lot, but there will not be a significant change.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Why? Because we have not finished the structural
revolution. The climate situation is a product of the breakdown of the social
reality we live in. The economic, political, and cultural realities are
unsustainable and long before the climate change destroys the earth's
population, the economic, political, and cultural dimensions (those parts we can
do something about) will destroy it first. We may think big oil keeps anyone
from addressing the climate situation, but we are the ones fueling big oil. We
may think Walmart killed small towns but small towns abandoned local shops and
spent their money in Walmart. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>My point is that the world needs a body of people who 1)
embraces the possibility of radical change; 2) unites the forces of
transformation; 3) works toward local empowerment; 4) prepares the emerging
generation of leaders; 5) reveals the deepest aspects of being human within
faith traditions, religious or not; 7) focuses on critical points of
non-cooperation and non-violent opposition; 8) utilizes a process of constant
strategy development, or we might say "evergreening development". </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>This body of people would have many faces, you know,
like the Seven Faces of Dr. Lao. Many faces, one people. This is another way of
saying that what needs to be done, needs to be done, regardless of whether
humankind will survive or not. On a personal level, isn't it a little like
saying I am going to die no matter what I do so it doesn't matter what I
do. I believe that given a healthy social process, we could dramatically
change course and stop adding to the disaster and simultaneously develop
effective adaptation efforts to reduce the impact of what we cannot
stop.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>So, who are these people going to be? Who is going to make
up the human community that is networked to get this done? It may need to have
many faces in each of the processes. Like a local face, a University face, an
inter-faith face, a leadership face, a church face, and economic alternative
face, a public education face, a public health face, or a human reformation
face, and finally, a climate response face! I think of Gilles' work a couple of
years ago on the guild, but focused, radicalized, strategic, firm in commitment
for a viable human future!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bill </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=geowanda@earthlink.net href="mailto:geowanda@earthlink.net">George
Holcombe</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net
href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">Colleague Dialogue</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 07, 2012 6:06
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...]
WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Sometimes being realistic is more than skeptical. Jim's
mention of climate change for me certainly is a game changer regarding the
right question. Climate scientist are not that rosy about the future,
and with the greatest polluters ignoring the data it does not hold much
promise. Jean Watts' husband, Bob, could probably give us more data
here. The increase in heat, shifting seasons, intensity of storms,
rising seas and all the things our media does not cover, e.g. South Sea
Islanders seeking to migrate to New Zealand and Australia because they are
losing ground month by month, even here in our garden we have insects that
were confined to the South of us now showing up. The intensity of
Monsoon seasons which is destroying top soil among other things, that our
colleague, Rupert Barnes, used to trace around the world in the 80's and 90's,
the expanding population and the shortage of water, the list goes on and on.
I understand that Climatologists are concerned about the CO2 in sea
waters, where it is and what it's doing, and rising acidity.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I remember we had an illustration about the guy being chased by the bear
and falling into the well clinging to a rope that a rat is gnawing away.
With Theology and Philosophy being outflanked by Science disciplines, I
begin to wonder if the "meaning of life" issues we enjoy tossing around is any
longer at the heart of the issue. Are we left with preparing for future
extinction, whatever that looks like, or attempting to rectify the damages
we've done to mother earth in hopes she changes her mind. Do we really
have a wider range of options or questions?</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV apple-content-edited="true"><SPAN
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<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WORD-WRAP: break-word; WHITE-SPACE: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">George
Holcombe<BR>14900 Yellowleaf Tr.<BR>Austin, TX 78728<BR>Mobile
512/252-2756<BR><A
href="mailto:geowanda@earthlink.net">geowanda@earthlink.net</A></DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WORD-WRAP: break-word; WHITE-SPACE: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">Hope
appeareth, but it is not your Hope—you do not have anything to do
with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it
just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the
world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify
any hope? ~Joseph W. Mathews<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><BR></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jul 7, 2012, at 12:17 PM, R Williams wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN>Jim and Jim,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>I find myself wanting to be realistic without being skeptical and
thinking that the situation is hopeless. Jim W., you mention Walter
Brueggemann's book <EM>The Prophetic Imagination.</EM> Brueggemann
suggests, as I understand what he is saying, that the task of the
ancient prophets was to imagine a future that was an alternative to the
dominant cultural reality of the time, and to narrate that alternative in
such a way that the people would participate in its
emergence. By "imagination" he meant the ability to discern what YHWH
was bringing into being.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>In the sequel, called <EM>The Practice of Prophetic
Imagination</EM>, Brueggemann says the following:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><EM>Can YHWH create, yet again, a new history for Israel, after
the old history has come to a dismal end? Here we are at the deepest
theological question of biblical faith--is the God of faith contained within
and informed by what the world knows to be possible? Or is it within
the capacity of God to create a newness that defies the categories of the
"possible" that are commonly and reasonably accepted in the
world?</EM></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><EM></EM></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>He then refers Karl Barth's second volume of <EM>Church
Dogmatics.</EM></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><EM></EM></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><EM>Karl Barth...faces the issue of what is "real" and what is
"possible..." Barth's insistence that the issue of
"possibility" must not claim to precede the question of "reality'" is
crucial. And because God is free, much is possible with God that would
not otherwise be possible.</EM></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><EM></EM></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Brueggemann continues:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><EM>It is useful to recognize, in our own context, that when
faith is contained within modern rationality, there is a rejection of the
God who can "do the impossible." The present casting of that rejection
concerns "an interventionist God" who violates our notion of the
possible... The question left...is a question about the freedom of God
that we seek to ponder without any recourse to crude
supernaturalism.</EM></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><EM></EM></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>By "crude supernaturalism" Brueggemann is
pointing to something like uttering magical prayers for
a person to be cured of an illness, or a town to be saved from violent
weather, etc. with the expectation that God will intervene in a spontaneous,
spasmodic instant to the immediate situation and prayers will be
answered. He does not, however, dismiss the idea that
God is an interventionist. What he does suggest is that, rather than
spontaneous, God is an active player in human history and is
continuously intervening in every "now," in the midst of which all things
are always being made new. He concludes:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>In each new articulation, Israel must ask again in wonderment if
God, in God's freedom, can push beyond ordinary "possibility" to the
"impossible..." The tradition of faith continues to be dazzled by
specific memories, in narrative form, of instances in which the
"impossibility of God" has overridden the "possibility" of human
wisdom...that exhibit God's faithful power beyond our expectation or
explanation.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV>Thus the role of the prophet is to discern the
"possible impossibility" (my words) that is emerging in the midst of
the death of the old, "narrate" it in a compelling fashion,
and participate in "bring(ing) it to reality as it desires." (Martin
Buber's phrase.) So to bring this back to where we started, perhaps
<U>the</U> question in all of this, and perhaps a timeless one at that,
is "What is the newness that is seeking to emerge in our
time and, what story shall we tell about it, and<VAR
id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR> what is required of us to participate in
having it emerge?"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Randy</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the course of being in the
world; not to be supported by it, but to bring it to reality as it
desires."<BR>-Martin Buber (adapted)<BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px"
class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> James Wiegel <<A
href="mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Colleague Dialogue <<A
href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, July 6, 2012
8:09 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE
DAYS?<BR></FONT></DIV><WBR>
<DIV id=yiv1391814593>
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<TD style="font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit"
vAlign=top>Wow. Thanks, Jim. Someone on this list
recommended Prophetic Imagination by Walter Bruggemann, and I found it
as an ebook and downloaded and read it. He is very much in line
with your perspective, and points to the experience of the prophets
and their role and function as what we need. Since reading it, I
have been saying to myself, we are moving into a prophetic
moment.<BR><BR>Jim Wiegel<BR><BR>"The problem with quotes on the
internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." Abraham
Lincoln<BR><BR>401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona
85353-2401<BR>+1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel<BR><A
href="mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</A> <A
href="http://www.partnersinparticipation.com">www.partnersinparticipation.com</A><BR><BR>Upcoming
public course opportunities:<BR>ToP Facilitation Methods, Sept 11-12,
2012<BR>ToP Strategic Planning, Oct 9-10, 2012<BR>The AZ Community of
Practice meets the 1st Friday- Sept 7, 2012<BR>Facilitation Mastery :
Our Mastering the Technology of Participation program is available in
Phoenix in 2012-3. Program begins on Nov 14-16, 2012 <BR>See short
video <A
href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55">http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55</A>
and website for further details.<BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 7/6/12, Jim
Baumbach <I><<A
href="mailto:wtw0bl@new.rr.com">wtw0bl@new.rr.com</A>></I></B>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
Jim Baumbach <<A
href="mailto:wtw0bl@new.rr.com">wtw0bl@new.rr.com</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE
DAYS?<BR>To: "Colleague Dialogue" <<A
href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</A>><BR>Date:
Friday, July 6, 2012, 4:55 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1391814593>
<DIV>Certainly Boulding was aware of some of the ominous crises and
saw within them a potential for extinction of our human
species. But several other crises are also pending including
global warming (environmental change), unending wars, physical and
chemical pollution, droughts and starvation, declining water
sources, etc. My question was not intended to be supercilious
but as a thought regarding how fragile our own current existence
is. Measured in a geologic time frame, the total presence of
human life is so minuscule as to be in all probability essentially
zero. Yet within that time frame, human beings have been able
to so threaten their own existence that one can hardly imagine any
other life form as suicidal. Despite all of the dire
scientific projections I, for one, am unable to stop doing exactly
what I, and many like me, have been doing for decades and
centuries--consuming the Earth's resources in unsustainable
amounts. And now the populations of China and India are also
anticipating doing what I am doing!<WBR> <WBR>I don't see anything
changing so profoundly that we will reverse our present
course. There are, of course, many band aid-type remedies such
as alternative energy sources but these only prolong this
process. Is it possible to change human nature to such an
extent that we, in Biblical tradition when Jonah proclaimed disaster
to Nineveh:<WBR> <WBR>"...Then tidings reached the king of Nineveh,
and he arose from his throne, removed his robe, and covered himself
with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And he made proclamation and
published through Nineveh, "By the decree of the king and his
nobles: Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything;
let them not feed, or drink water, but let man and beast be covered
with sackcloth, and let them cry mightily to God; yea, let every one
turn from his evil way and from the violence which is in his hands."
(Jonah 3:3-8 RSV),<WBR> <WBR>actually change our habits?
Without this dramatic turn-around possibly our question will
be: "How do we prepare all human life to face the inevitable
extinction of our species?"<WBR> <WBR>Jim Baumbach<WBR>
<WBR> <WBR>
<DIV class=yiv1391814593moz-cite-prefix>On 7/6/2012 3:56 PM, James
Wiegel wrote:<WBR> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
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<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 16pt"
class=yiv1391814593MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13pt">I
was just reminded of an old, old, friend, Kenneth Boulding,
and a chapter from his book, The Meaning of the Twentieth
Century -- The Great Transition, published in 1964. He
described this "great transition" thusly:
<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 24pt">The Great Transition
(1964)</SPAN></B></DIV>
<DIV>The twentieth century might be described as the crucial
central period in the third great transition in the state of
mankind. The first great transition was from the paleolithic
to the neolithic about ten thousand years ago, which was
characterized by the invention of agriculture, the
domestication of animals, and the development of a settled
life in villages. The second great transition, sometimes
called the urban revolution, about five thousand years ago,
was characterized by the development of political power and
the centralization of the food surplus from agriculture in
cities. This is the transition from neolithic agriculture to
civilizations. What is underway now is a third great
transition, in which civilization is passing away and a new
order of society altogether, which I have sometimes called
post-civilized but which perhaps deserves the name of the
Developed Society, is coming into being. The twentieth
century is the crucial midstage of this transition which
will determine very largely whether it will be made
successful or not. <BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>HERE ARE SOME PARAGRAPHS FROM THE FINAL CHAPTER.
I FOUND THEM ON THE GOLDEN PATHWAYS:
<BR></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 16pt"
class=yiv1391814593MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13pt">The fact of the great transition is
not in dispute. Almost anyone in middle life today has
simply to look back to his own childhood, or still more to
the days of his grandparents, to realize that we are living
in a world in which there is an enormous rate of change. If
anyone in an advanced society today were to suddenly thrust
back into the world of only a hundred years ago, he would
feel utterly alien and strange. A considerable part of his
vocabulary would be meaningless to the people around him. He
would find it hard to adapt to the inconveniences and to the
restricted life which would have to lead. He would feel
indeed in an alien society.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 16pt"
class=yiv1391814593MsoNormal><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 16pt"
class=yiv1391814593MsoNormal>....................................................<BR><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13pt"></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt"></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 16pt"
class=yiv1391814593MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13pt">I, therefore, have no hesitation in
recommending the attitude toward the great transition which
I have described as critical acceptance. There may be times
when we wish nostalgically that it had never started, for
then at least the danger that the evolutionary experiment in
this part of the universe would be terminated would be more
remote. Now that the transition is under way, however, there
is no going back on it. We must learn to use its enormous
potential for good rather than for evil, and we must learn
to diminish and eventually eliminate the dangers which are
inherent in it. If I had to sum up the situation in a
sentence I would say that the situation has arisen because
of the development of certain methods of reality testing
applied to our images of nature. If we are to ride out the
transition successfully we must apply these or similar
methods for reality testing to our images of man and his
society.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt"></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 16pt"
class=yiv1391814593MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13pt">There is in the world today an
"invisible college" of people in many different countries
and many different cultures, who have this vision of the
nature of the transition through which we are passing and
who are determined to devote their lives to contributing
toward its successful fulfillment. Membership in this
college is consistent with many different philosophical,
religious, and political positions. It is a college without
a founder and without a president, without buildings and
without organization. Its founding members might have
included a Jesuit like Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a
humanist like Aldous Huxley, a writer of science fiction
like H. G. Wells, and it might even have given honorary
degrees to Adam Smith, Karl Marx, Pope John XXIII, and even
Khrushchev and John F. Kennedy. Its living representatives
are still a pretty small group of people. I think, however,
that it is they who hold the future of the world in their
hands or at least in their minds.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt"></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 16pt"
class=yiv1391814593MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13pt">For this invisible college I am an
unashamed propagandist and I confess without a blush that
this book is a tract. Our precious little planet, this blue
green cradle of life with its rosy mantle, is in one of the
most critical stages of its whole existence. It is in a
position of immense danger and immense potentiality. There
are no doubt many experiments in evolution going on in
different parts of this big universe. But this happens to be
my planet and I am very much attached to it, and I am
desperately anxious that this particular experiment should
be a success. If this be ethnocentrism, then let me be
ethnocentric! I am pretty sure, however, that it will not be
a success unless something is done. There is danger both of
the bang of nuclear detonation and of the whimper of
exhausted overpopulation, and either would mean an end of
the evolutionary process in these parts. If man were merely
capable of destroying himself, one could perhaps bear the
thought. One could at least console oneself with the thought
of elementary justice, that if man does destroy himself it
is his own silly fault. He is captain, however, of a frai1
and delicate vessel, and in the course of destroying himself
he might easily destroy the vessel that is, the
planet which carries him, with its immense wealth and
variety of evolutionary freight and evolutionary potential.
This makes the dangers of the transition doubly intolerable,
and demands a desperate effort to remove them.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16pt"></SPAN></DIV><BR><BR>Jim
Wiegel<BR><BR>"The problem with quotes on the internet is
that it is hard to verify their authenticity." Abraham
Lincoln<BR><BR>401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona
85353-2401<BR>+1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel<BR><A
class=yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="x-msg://14/" rel=nofollow>jfwiegel@yahoo.com</A> <A
class=yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/</A><BR><BR>Upcoming
public course opportunities:<BR>ToP Facilitation Methods,
Sept 11-12, 2012<BR>ToP Strategic Planning, Oct 9-10,
2012<BR>The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday-
Sept 7, 2012<BR>Facilitation Mastery : Our Mastering the
Technology of Participation program is available in Phoenix
in 2012-3. Program begins on Nov 14-16, 2012 <BR>See short
video <A class=yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55</A>
and website for further details.<BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri,
7/6/12, R Williams <I><A
class=yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="x-msg://14/"
rel=nofollow><rcwmbw@yahoo.com></A></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
R Williams <A class=yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="x-msg://14/"
rel=nofollow><rcwmbw@yahoo.com></A><BR>Subject: Re:
[Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE
DAYS?<BR>To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <A
class=yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="x-msg://14/"
rel=nofollow><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></A>,
"Colleague Dialogue" <A
class=yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="x-msg://14/"
rel=nofollow><dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net></A><BR>Date:
Friday, July 6, 2012, 11:30 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1391814593>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN>Jim,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>By "peace" I meant something more than the
absence of war. I suppose I meant something like
"with civility," " with mutual respect," "acknowledging
the dignity and worth of all." This may be
idealistic but without it I am skeptical that we can
continue. The by-product of this kind of peace is
sustainability, so my statement may have been a bit
redundant.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>I agree with Wayne up to a point. I
believe there is really one moral issue at a
time, but there must be many ways to describe it
and thus to articulate the question. With the
way issues are so inter-related, it's difficult to talk
about one without eventually
getting into most of the others, and probably
even more difficult to finally boil it down to
"the" underlying root/moral issue of the time. I
would have to say that the way we articulated it in
the 70's as the disparity between the 85/15, or today
maybe the 99/1, isn't that far off base for today as
well<VAR
id=yiv1391814593yui-ie-cursor></VAR>.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>One thing I do feel fairly certain about.
Whereas in RS-1 days we asked, "Who am I?" "What
do I?" and "How be I?"--today I would insist that the
question, whatever it is, is not an "I" question, but
rather a "we" question.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Randy</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the
course of being in the world; not to be supported by it,
but to bring it to reality as it desires."<WBR> -Martin
Buber (adapted)<WBR> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> James Wiegel <A
class=yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="x-msg://14/"
rel=nofollow><jfwiegel@yahoo.com></A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Colleague
Dialogue <A class=yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="x-msg://14/"
rel=nofollow><dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net></A>;
Order Ecumenical Community <A
class=yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="x-msg://14/"
rel=nofollow><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></A>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Friday, July 6, 2012 12:33 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Oe List
...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE
DAYS?<BR></FONT></DIV><WBR>WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION
THESE DAYS?<WBR> <WBR>Over coffee, this morning, i
recopied the emails from this thread and tried to narrow
down to just the questions that were posed.<WBR> <WBR>I
think i missed an email that Lee Early was responding to
in his message.<WBR> <WBR>A couple of reflections:
<WBR><WBR>Randy, in yours, i was struggling with the
phrase "in peace", wondering, a bit like the word "church"
or "religious" what that might point to that would seem
true to life vs. sort of an ideal future.<WBR> <WBR>Wayne,
your response that there may not be "a" question, but many
and we each have to figure out our own for ourselves got
me to reflecting on the evident complicatedness of things
in a systemic or interconnected world. My auto
mechanic was explaining to me how to simply fix the health
care system in the US, and your comment came up for me,
and i said that is a good idea, but i think we are looking
too often for simple silver bullet solutions when thngs
are actually much more complicated. And that made
sense to both of us and moved the conversation on.<WBR>
<WBR>Jim Baumbach's question put me back on my heels .
"How do I get you to change your mind and do what I think
is right?" then, when in linking it with Bill
Parker's notion that none of this is new, and why haven't
we all woken up? Got me thinking, at least on the liberal
or progressive side, whether the new religion arising is
the religion of human rights . . . Progressives, at least,
seem to hold these as sacred and as a moral obligation to
be enforced.<WBR> <WBR>I could go on, but my eggs are
getting cold, and the slice of cantelope from Judy's
garden is calling.<WBR> <WBR>THE GIST AS I SEE IT<WBR>
Mary Hampton: Enough, all ready, its too good to
miss and I am not ready to edit. Good stuff,
folks!<WBR> <WBR>Ken Gilgren: why am I here? What am
I doing? How am I being? What quickens the current
action of my soul?<WBR> what was the question again?<WBR>
<WBR>Wayne Nelson: What are the pivotal moral issues
of our moment? I think there are likely to be
several. Of course there are many, many but there are
probably some major ones. To reduce it to a single
one makes it too abstract and denies the obvious
complexity. We all have to name 'the moral issue of
our time.' There's not likely to be one for
everyone. It's a job we all have to do.<WBR> <WBR>Bill
Parker: What are the warning signs of the
destruction and endangerment of the entire human
community? Then ask, what is the underlying question
to be addressed and how it can be addressed. Why are
people not being awakened to the clear, obvious truth of
our crisis? Secondly, what methods must we develop or
employ to radically reveal this all encompassing
truth?<WBR> <WBR>John Cock: My take: If it does not
have something like "on behalf of a transformed Earth
community" in the statement, it is the WRONG right
question, moral issue, or vocation.<WBR> <WBR>Lee
Early: "Who is Tiger Woods?", What is his
mission? Can we re-answer the second question?
Mission, social pioneer, church, college, league, crimson
line and movement? The answer to the question of
mission will carry the first of who. (At least here
in the West.) Sometimes the question of mission
changes. Sometimes by chance and sometimes on
purpose. What is our mission TODAY?<WBR> <WBR>Randy
Williams: In reflecting on the dialogue around what
is "the question," I realized we really were assuming two
questions. How may "we" (all species) live
together on this planet in peace, in a way that secures
life for future generations? What is the new face,
form and mission of the "movement" (the religious, the
invisible college, the church with a little"c," ) and what
stories, style and symbols will sustain it?<WBR> <WBR>Jan
Sanders: What are the key images of the future of
evolution?<WBR> <WBR>Steve Harrington: You had to
say it, eh? What does it look like to be the
Sensitive & Responsive. To what concerns? where?<WBR>
<WBR>Karen Bueno: "How do we motivate the sensitive and
reponsive ones who understand that the survival of the
people of the earth and the earth itself depends on our
working together to make that survival possible?" I
like the idea of striving for a T-shirt phrase, like "Be
one of those who dare to live the future now.", as someone
suggested.<WBR> <WBR>David Walters: in the midst of
a malaise of helplessness and an established / controlling
economic and political elite, what can we do to support
and help to form the emerging groups and movements (both
the Tea Party and the Occupy movement) to be both
effective and inclusive?<WBR> <WBR>Jack Gilles:
Given the stance that "History rides on the back of the
religious" that we embodied and lived..... "Who are the
'religious' today, where would you look to find them, what
are the marks that tell you so, and what might we share
(and how) with them so that they are empowered and
connected?". The "we" in the question should refer
to "those of us who are scattered" and who will take
seriously the answers. <WBR><WBR>Janice
Ulangca: In this 50th year of EI/ICA, some of the
questions to live with: Considering what we
were/are/might be, what is our calling? What are we
called to know/do/be? What are some of the important
partnerships the future needs?<WBR> <WBR>Missed the
name: What was Neibhur's line? (and how do you spell
his name?) Something about the sensitive and
something ones.<WBR> <WBR>Nancy Lanphear: What is "
MY GREAT WORK (IS) WHERE MY OWN GREAT JOY INTERSECTS WITH
EARTH'S GREAT NEED" ....perhaps EARTH could be stretched
to all my relations, the universe, life ....<WBR> <WBR>Jan
and Steve: Considering what we were/are/might be,
what is our calling? What are we called to
know/do/be? <WBR>Jan: What are some of the
important partnerships the future needs?<WBR> <WBR>Jim
Baumbach: "How do I get you to change your mind and
do what I think is right?"<WBR> <WBR>Karen Bueno:
"How are we to live together and preserve this planet for
the future?"<WBR> <WBR><WBR><WBR>Jim Wiegel<WBR> <A
href="x-msg://14/"
rel=nofollow>Jfwiegel@yahoo.com</A><WBR> <WBR>“One cannot
live in the afternoon of life according to the program of
life’s morning; for what was great in the morning will be
of little importance in the evening, and what in the
morning was true will at evening have become a lie.” –
Carl Jung<WBR> <WBR>Partners in Participation Upcoming
public course opportunities:<WBR> ToP Facilitation
Methods, Sept 11-12, 2012<WBR> ToP Strategic Planning, Oct
9-10, 2012<WBR> The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st
Friday- Sept 7, 2012<WBR> Facilitation Mastery : Our
Mastering the Technology of Participation program is
available in Phoenix in 2012-3. Program begins on Nov
14-16, 2012 <WBR>See short video <A
href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55</A>
and website for further details.<WBR>
_______________________________________________<WBR> OE
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rel=nofollow>OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</A><WBR> <A
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