<font color='black' size='2' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>
<div><font style="background-color: transparent;" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks, George and John, earlier. I believe Earth is the primary referent for whatever question is posed.</font></div>
<div>Ellie Stock</div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: George Holcombe <geowanda@earthlink.net><br>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net><br>
Sent: Sat, Jul 7, 2012 6:07 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?<br>
<br>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_adeca74e-c9d0-47a5-ac47-3b05420267dd">
Sometimes being realistic is more than skeptical. Jim's mention of climate change for me certainly is a game changer regarding the right question. Climate scientist are not that rosy about the future, and with the greatest polluters ignoring the data it does not hold much promise. Jean Watts' husband, Bob, could probably give us more data here. The increase in heat, shifting seasons, intensity of storms, rising seas and all the things our media does not cover, e.g. South Sea Islanders seeking to migrate to New Zealand and Australia because they are losing ground month by month, even here in our garden we have insects that were confined to the South of us now showing up. The intensity of Monsoon seasons which is destroying top soil among other things, that our colleague, Rupert Barnes, used to trace around the world in the 80's and 90's, the expanding population and the shortage of water, the list goes on and on. I understand that Climatologists are concerned about the CO2 in sea waters, where it is and what it's doing, and rising acidity.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I remember we had an illustration about the guy being chased by the bear and falling into the well clinging to a rope that a rat is gnawing away. With Theology and Philosophy being outflanked by Science disciplines, I begin to wonder if the "meaning of life" issues we enjoy tossing around is any longer at the heart of the issue. Are we left with preparing for future extinction, whatever that looks like, or attempting to rectify the damages we've done to mother earth in hopes she changes her mind. Do we really have a wider range of options or questions?</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<span style="font:/normal Helvetica; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="text-indent: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;" class="Apple-style-span">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span style="text-indent: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;" class="Apple-style-span">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span style="text-indent: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;" class="Apple-style-span">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span style="text-indent: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;" class="Apple-style-span">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span style="text-indent: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;" class="Apple-style-span">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span style="text-indent: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;" class="Apple-style-span">
<div style="font:/normal Helvetica; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">George Holcombe<br>
14900 Yellowleaf Tr.<br>
Austin, TX 78728<br>
Mobile 512/252-2756<br>
<a href="mailto:geowanda@earthlink.net">geowanda@earthlink.net</a></div>
<div style="font:/normal Helvetica; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hope appeareth, but it is not your Hope—you do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify any hope? ~Joseph W. Mathews<br>
<br>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Jul 7, 2012, at 12:17 PM, R Williams wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div><span>Jim and Jim,</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>I find myself wanting to be realistic without being skeptical and thinking that the situation is hopeless. Jim W., you mention Walter Brueggemann's book <em>The Prophetic Imagination.</em> Brueggemann suggests, as I understand what he is saying, that the task of the ancient prophets was to imagine a future that was an alternative to the dominant cultural reality of the time, and to narrate that alternative in such a way that the people would participate in its emergence. By "imagination" he meant the ability to discern what YHWH was bringing into being.</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>In the sequel, called <em>The Practice of Prophetic Imagination</em>, Brueggemann says the
following:</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><em>Can YHWH create, yet again, a new history for Israel, after the old history has come to a dismal end? Here we are at the deepest theological question of biblical faith--is the God of faith contained within and informed by what the world knows to be possible? Or is it within the capacity of God to create a newness that defies the categories of the "possible" that are commonly and reasonably accepted in the world?</em></span></div>
<div><span><em></em></span> </div>
<div><span>He then refers Karl Barth's second volume of <em>Church Dogmatics.</em></span></div>
<div><span><em></em></span> </div>
<div><span><em>Karl Barth...faces the issue of what is "real" and what is "possible..." Barth's insistence that the issue of "possibility" must not claim to precede the question of "reality'" is crucial. And because God is free, much is possible with
God that would not otherwise be possible.</em></span></div>
<div><span><em></em></span> </div>
<div><span>Brueggemann continues:</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><em>It is useful to recognize, in our own context, that when faith is contained within modern rationality, there is a rejection of the God who can "do the impossible." The present casting of that rejection concerns "an interventionist God" who violates our notion of the possible... The question left...is a question about the freedom of God that we seek to ponder without any recourse to crude supernaturalism.</em></span></div>
<div><span><em></em></span> </div>
<div>By "crude supernaturalism" Brueggemann is pointing to something like uttering magical prayers for a person to be cured of an illness, or a town to be saved from violent weather, etc. with the expectation that God will intervene in a spontaneous, spasmodic instant to the
immediate situation and prayers will be answered. He does not, however, dismiss the idea that God is an interventionist. What he does suggest is that, rather than spontaneous, God is an active player in human history and is continuously intervening in every "now," in the midst of which all things are always being made new. He concludes:</div>
<div> </div>
<div><em>In each new articulation, Israel must ask again in wonderment if God, in God's freedom, can push beyond ordinary "possibility" to the "impossible..." The tradition of faith continues to be dazzled by specific memories, in narrative form, of instances in which the "impossibility of God" has overridden the "possibility" of human wisdom...that exhibit God's faithful power beyond our expectation or explanation.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div>Thus the role of the prophet is to discern the "possible impossibility" (my words)
that is emerging in the midst of the death of the old, "narrate" it in a compelling fashion, and participate in "bring(ing) it to reality as it desires." (Martin Buber's phrase.) So to bring this back to where we started, perhaps <u>the</u> question in all of this, and perhaps a timeless one at that, is "What is the newness that is seeking to emerge in our time and, what story shall we tell about it, and<var id="yui-ie-cursor"></var> what is required of us to participate in having it emerge?"</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Randy</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>"Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the course of being in the world; not to be supported by it, but to bring it to reality as it desires."<br>
-Martin Buber (adapted)<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: tahoma, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial">
<div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="hr" readonly="true"></div>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> James Wiegel <<a href="mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Colleague Dialogue <<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 6, 2012 8:09 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?<br>
</font> </div>
<wbr>
<div id="yiv1391814593"><table border="0" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" vAlign="top">Wow. Thanks, Jim. Someone on this list recommended Prophetic Imagination by Walter Bruggemann,
and I found it as an ebook and downloaded and read it. He is very much in line with your perspective, and points to the experience of the prophets and their role and function as what we need. Since reading it, I have been saying to myself, we are moving into a prophetic moment.<br>
<br>
Jim Wiegel<br>
<br>
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln<br>
<br>
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401<br>
+1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel<br>
<a href="mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</a> <a href="http://www.partnersinparticipation.com" target="_blank">www.partnersinparticipation.com</a><br>
<br>
Upcoming public course opportunities:<br>
ToP Facilitation Methods, Sept 11-12, 2012<br>
ToP Strategic Planning, Oct 9-10, 2012<br>
The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday- Sept 7, 2012<br>
Facilitation Mastery : Our Mastering the Technology of Participation program is available in Phoenix in 2012-3. Program begins on Nov 14-16, 2012 <br>
See short video <a href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55" target="_blank">http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55</a> and website for further details.<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Fri, 7/6/12, Jim Baumbach <i><<a href="mailto:wtw0bl@new.rr.com">wtw0bl@new.rr.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"><br>
From: Jim Baumbach <<a href="mailto:wtw0bl@new.rr.com">wtw0bl@new.rr.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?<br>
To: "Colleague Dialogue" <<a href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br>
Date: Friday, July 6, 2012, 4:55 PM<br>
<br>
<div id="yiv1391814593">
<div>
Certainly Boulding was aware of some of the ominous crises and saw
within them a potential for extinction of our human species. But
several other crises are also pending including global warming
(environmental change), unending wars, physical and chemical
pollution, droughts and starvation, declining water sources, etc.
My question was not intended to be supercilious but as a thought
regarding how fragile our own current existence is. Measured in a
geologic time frame, the total presence of human life is so
minuscule as to be in all probability essentially zero. Yet within
that time frame, human beings have been able to so threaten their
own existence that one can hardly imagine any other life form as
suicidal. Despite all of the dire scientific projections I, for
one, am unable to stop doing exactly what I, and many like me, have
been doing for decades and centuries--consuming the Earth's
resources in unsustainable amounts. And now the populations of
China and India are also anticipating doing what I am doing!<wbr>
<wbr>
I don't see anything changing so profoundly that we will reverse our
present course. There are, of course, many band aid-type remedies
such as alternative energy sources but these only prolong this
process. Is it possible to change human nature to such an extent
that we, in Biblical tradition when Jonah proclaimed disaster to
Nineveh:<wbr>
<wbr>
"...Then tidings reached the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his
throne, removed his robe, and covered himself with sackcloth, and
sat in ashes. And he made proclamation and published through
Nineveh, "By the decree of the king and his nobles: Let neither man
nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; let them not feed, or
drink water, but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and
let them cry mightily to God; yea, let every one turn from his evil
way and from the violence which is in his hands." (Jonah 3:3-8 RSV),<wbr>
<wbr>
actually change our habits? Without this dramatic turn-around
possibly our question will be: "How do we prepare all human life to
face the inevitable extinction of our species?"<wbr>
<wbr>
Jim Baumbach<wbr>
<wbr>
<wbr>
<div class="yiv1391814593moz-cite-prefix">On 7/6/2012 3:56 PM, James Wiegel
wrote:<wbr>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<table border="0" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="font: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" vAlign="top">
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;" class="yiv1391814593MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">I was just
reminded of an old, old, friend, Kenneth Boulding, and
a chapter from his book, The Meaning of the Twentieth
Century -- The Great Transition, published in 1964.
He described this "great transition" thusly: <br>
</span></div>
<div><b><span style="font-size: 24pt;">The Great Transition (1964)</span></b></div>
<div>The twentieth century might be described as the crucial
central period in
the third great transition in the state of mankind. The
first great transition
was from the paleolithic to the neolithic about ten
thousand years ago, which
was characterized by the invention of agriculture, the
domestication of
animals, and the development of a settled life in
villages. The second great
transition, sometimes called the urban revolution, about
five thousand years
ago, was characterized by the development of political
power and the
centralization of the food surplus from agriculture in
cities. This is the
transition from neolithic agriculture to civilizations.
What is underway now is
a third great transition, in which civilization is
passing away and a new order
of society altogether, which I have sometimes called
post-civilized but which
perhaps deserves the name of the Developed Society, is
coming into being. The
twentieth century is the crucial midstage of this
transition which will
determine very largely whether it will be made
successful or not. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>HERE ARE SOME PARAGRAPHS FROM THE FINAL CHAPTER. I
FOUND THEM ON THE GOLDEN PATHWAYS: <br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;" class="yiv1391814593MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">The fact
of the great transition is not in
dispute. Almost anyone in middle life today has simply
to look back to his own
childhood, or still more to the days of his
grandparents, to realize that we
are living in a world in which there is an enormous
rate of change. If anyone
in an advanced society today were to suddenly thrust
back into the world of
only a hundred years ago, he would feel utterly alien
and strange. A
considerable part of his vocabulary would be
meaningless to the people around
him. He would find it hard to adapt to the
inconveniences and to the restricted
life which would have to lead. He would feel indeed in
an alien society.</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;" class="yiv1391814593MsoNormal"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;" class="yiv1391814593MsoNormal">....................................................<br>
<span style="font-size: 13pt;"></span><span style="font-size: 16pt;"></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;" class="yiv1391814593MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">I,
therefore, have no hesitation in
recommending the attitude toward the great transition
which I have described as
critical acceptance. There may be times when we wish
nostalgically that it had
never started, for then at least the danger that the
evolutionary experiment in
this part of the universe would be terminated would be
more remote. Now that
the transition is under way, however, there is no
going back on it. We must
learn to use its enormous potential for good rather
than for evil, and we must
learn to diminish and eventually eliminate the dangers
which are inherent in
it. If I had to sum up the situation in a sentence I
would say that the
situation has arisen because of the development of
certain methods of reality
testing applied to our images of nature. If we are to
ride out the transition
successfully we must apply these or similar methods
for reality testing to our
images of man and his society.</span><span style="font-size: 16pt;"></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;" class="yiv1391814593MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">There
is in the world today an
"invisible college" of people in many different
countries and many
different cultures, who have this vision of the nature
of the transition through
which we are passing and who are determined to devote
their lives to
contributing toward its successful fulfillment.
Membership in this college is
consistent with many different philosophical,
religious, and political
positions. It is a college without a founder and
without a president, without
buildings and without organization. Its founding
members might have included a
Jesuit like Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a humanist
like Aldous Huxley, a writer
of science fiction like H. G. Wells, and it might even
have given honorary
degrees to Adam Smith, Karl Marx, Pope John XXIII, and
even Khrushchev and John
F. Kennedy. Its living representatives are still a
pretty small group of
people. I think, however, that it is they who hold the
future of the world in their
hands or at least in their minds.</span><span style="font-size: 16pt;"></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 16pt;" class="yiv1391814593MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">For
this invisible college I am an unashamed
propagandist and I confess without a blush that this
book is a tract. Our
precious little planet, this blue green cradle of life
with its rosy mantle, is
in one of the most critical stages of its whole
existence. It is in a position
of immense danger and immense potentiality. There are
no doubt many experiments
in evolution going on in different parts of this big
universe. But this happens
to be my planet and I am very much attached to it, and
I am desperately anxious
that this particular experiment should be a success.
If this be ethnocentrism,
then let me be ethnocentric! I am pretty sure,
however, that it will not be a
success unless something is done. There is danger both
of the bang of nuclear
detonation and of the whimper of exhausted
overpopulation, and either would
mean an end of the evolutionary process in these
parts. If man were merely
capable of destroying himself, one could perhaps bear
the thought. One could at
least console oneself with the thought of elementary
justice, that if man does
destroy himself it is his own silly fault. He is
captain, however, of a frai1
and delicate vessel, and in the course of destroying
himself he might easily
destroy the vessel that is, the planet which carries
him, with its immense
wealth and variety of evolutionary freight and
evolutionary potential. This
makes the dangers of the transition doubly
intolerable, and demands a desperate
effort to remove them.</span><span style="font-size: 16pt;"></span></div>
<br>
<br>
Jim Wiegel<br>
<br>
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is
hard to verify their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln<br>
<br>
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401<br>
+1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel<br>
<a class="yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-abbreviated" rel="nofollow">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</a> <a class="yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/</a><br>
<br>
Upcoming public course opportunities:<br>
ToP Facilitation Methods, Sept 11-12, 2012<br>
ToP Strategic Planning, Oct 9-10, 2012<br>
The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday- Sept 7,
2012<br>
Facilitation Mastery : Our Mastering the Technology of
Participation program is available in Phoenix in 2012-3.
Program begins on Nov 14-16, 2012 <br>
See short video
<a class="yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55</a> and website
for further details.<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Fri, 7/6/12, R Williams <i><a class="yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" rel="nofollow"><rcwmbw@yahoo.com></a></i></b>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"><br>
From: R Williams <a class="yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" rel="nofollow"><rcwmbw@yahoo.com></a><br>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT
QUESTION THESE DAYS?<br>
To: "Order Ecumenical Community"
<a class="yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" rel="nofollow"><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></a>, "Colleague Dialogue"
<a class="yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" rel="nofollow"><dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net></a><br>
Date: Friday, July 6, 2012, 11:30 AM<br>
<br>
<div id="yiv1391814593">
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div><span>Jim,</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>By "peace" I meant something more than
the absence of war. I suppose I meant
something like "with civility," " with mutual
respect," "acknowledging the dignity and worth
of all." This may be idealistic but without
it I am skeptical that we can continue. The
by-product of this kind of peace is
sustainability, so my statement may have been
a bit redundant.</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>I agree with Wayne up to a point. I
believe there is really one moral issue at a
time, but there must be many ways to describe
it and thus to articulate the question. With
the way issues are so inter-related, it's
difficult to talk about one without eventually
getting into most of the others, and probably
even more difficult to finally boil it down to
"the" underlying root/moral issue of the
time. I would have to say that the way we
articulated it in the 70's as the disparity
between the 85/15, or today maybe the 99/1,
isn't that far off base for today as well<var id="yiv1391814593yui-ie-cursor"></var>.</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>One thing I do feel fairly certain
about. Whereas in RS-1 days we asked, "Who am
I?" "What do I?" and "How be I?"--today I
would insist that the question, whatever it
is, is not an "I" question, but rather a "we"
question.</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Randy</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>"Listen to what is emerging from yourself to
the course of being in the world; not to be
supported by it, but to bring it to reality as
it desires."<wbr>
-Martin Buber (adapted)<wbr>
</div>
<div style="font-family: tahoma, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial">
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
James Wiegel <a class="yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" rel="nofollow"><jfwiegel@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
Colleague Dialogue
<a class="yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" rel="nofollow"><dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net></a>;
Order Ecumenical Community
<a class="yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" rel="nofollow"><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Friday, July 6, 2012 12:33 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION
THESE DAYS?<br>
</font> </div>
<wbr>
WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?<wbr>
<wbr>
Over coffee, this morning, i recopied the
emails from this thread and tried to narrow
down to just the questions that were posed.<wbr>
<wbr>
I think i missed an email that Lee Early was
responding to in his message.<wbr>
<wbr>
A couple of reflections: <wbr>
<wbr>
Randy, in yours, i was struggling with the
phrase "in peace", wondering, a bit like the
word "church" or "religious" what that might
point to that would seem true to life vs. sort
of an ideal future.<wbr>
<wbr>
Wayne, your response that there may not be "a"
question, but many and we each have to figure
out our own for ourselves got me to reflecting
on the evident complicatedness of things in a
systemic or interconnected world. My auto
mechanic was explaining to me how to simply
fix the health care system in the US, and your
comment came up for me, and i said that is a
good idea, but i think we are looking too
often for simple silver bullet solutions when
thngs are actually much more complicated. And
that made sense to both of us and moved the
conversation on.<wbr>
<wbr>
Jim Baumbach's question put me back on my
heels . "How do I get you to change your mind
and do what I think is right?" then, when in
linking it with Bill Parker's notion that none
of this is new, and why haven't we all woken
up? Got me thinking, at least on the liberal
or progressive side, whether the new religion
arising is the religion of human rights . . .
Progressives, at least, seem to hold these as
sacred and as a moral obligation to be
enforced.<wbr>
<wbr>
I could go on, but my eggs are getting cold,
and the slice of cantelope from Judy's garden
is calling.<wbr>
<wbr>
THE GIST AS I SEE IT<wbr>
Mary Hampton: Enough, all ready, its too good
to miss and I am not ready to edit. Good
stuff, folks!<wbr>
<wbr>
Ken Gilgren: why am I here? What am I doing?
How am I being? What quickens the current
action of my soul?<wbr>
what was the question again?<wbr>
<wbr>
Wayne Nelson: What are the pivotal moral
issues of our moment? I think there are
likely to be several. Of course there are
many, many but there are probably some major
ones. To reduce it to a single one makes it
too abstract and denies the obvious
complexity. We all have to name 'the moral
issue of our time.' There's not likely to be
one for everyone. It's a job we all have to
do.<wbr>
<wbr>
Bill Parker: What are the warning signs of
the destruction and endangerment of the entire
human community? Then ask, what is the
underlying question to be addressed and how it
can be addressed. Why are people not being
awakened to the clear, obvious truth of our
crisis? Secondly, what methods must we develop
or employ to radically reveal this all
encompassing truth?<wbr>
<wbr>
John Cock: My take: If it does not have
something like "on behalf of a transformed
Earth community" in the statement, it is the
WRONG right question, moral issue, or
vocation.<wbr>
<wbr>
Lee Early: "Who is Tiger Woods?", What is his
mission? Can we re-answer the second
question? Mission, social pioneer, church,
college, league, crimson line and movement?
The answer to the question of mission will
carry the first of who. (At least here in the
West.) Sometimes the question of mission
changes. Sometimes by chance and sometimes on
purpose. What is our mission TODAY?<wbr>
<wbr>
Randy Williams: In reflecting on the dialogue
around what is "the question," I realized we
really were assuming two questions. How may
"we" (all species) live together on this
planet in peace, in a way that secures life
for future generations? What is the new face,
form and mission of the "movement" (the
religious, the invisible college, the church
with a little"c," ) and what stories, style
and symbols will sustain it?<wbr>
<wbr>
Jan Sanders: What are the key images of the
future of evolution?<wbr>
<wbr>
Steve Harrington: You had to say it, eh?
What does it look like to be the Sensitive
& Responsive. To what concerns? where?<wbr>
<wbr>
Karen Bueno: "How do we motivate the sensitive
and reponsive ones who understand that the
survival of the people of the earth and the
earth itself depends on our working together
to make that survival possible?" I like the
idea of striving for a T-shirt phrase, like
"Be one of those who dare to live the future
now.", as someone suggested.<wbr>
<wbr>
David Walters: in the midst of a malaise of
helplessness and an established / controlling
economic and political elite, what can we do
to support and help to form the emerging
groups and movements (both the Tea Party and
the Occupy movement) to be both effective and
inclusive?<wbr>
<wbr>
Jack Gilles: Given the stance that "History
rides on the back of the religious" that we
embodied and lived..... "Who are the
'religious' today, where would you look to
find them, what are the marks that tell you
so, and what might we share (and how) with
them so that they are empowered and
connected?". The "we" in the question should
refer to "those of us who are scattered" and
who will take seriously the answers. <wbr>
<wbr>
Janice Ulangca: In this 50th year of EI/ICA,
some of the questions to live with:
Considering what we were/are/might be, what is
our calling? What are we called to
know/do/be? What are some of the important
partnerships the future needs?<wbr>
<wbr>
Missed the name: What was Neibhur's line?
(and how do you spell his name?) Something
about the sensitive and something ones.<wbr>
<wbr>
Nancy Lanphear: What is " MY GREAT WORK (IS)
WHERE MY OWN GREAT JOY INTERSECTS WITH EARTH'S
GREAT NEED" ....perhaps EARTH could be
stretched to all my relations, the universe,
life ....<wbr>
<wbr>
Jan and Steve: Considering what we
were/are/might be, what is our calling? What
are we called to know/do/be? <wbr>
Jan: What are some of the important
partnerships the future needs?<wbr>
<wbr>
Jim Baumbach: "How do I get you to change
your mind and do what I think is right?"<wbr>
<wbr>
Karen Bueno: "How are we to live together and
preserve this planet for the future?"<wbr>
<wbr>
<wbr>
<wbr>
Jim Wiegel<wbr>
<a rel="nofollow">Jfwiegel@yahoo.com</a><wbr>
<wbr>
“One cannot live in the afternoon of life
according to the program of life’s morning;
for what was great in the morning will be of
little importance in the evening, and what in
the morning was true will at evening have
become a lie.” – Carl Jung<wbr>
<wbr>
Partners in Participation Upcoming public
course opportunities:<wbr>
ToP Facilitation Methods, Sept 11-12, 2012<wbr>
ToP Strategic Planning, Oct 9-10, 2012<wbr>
The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st
Friday- Sept 7, 2012<wbr>
Facilitation Mastery : Our Mastering the
Technology of Participation program is
available in Phoenix in 2012-3. Program begins
on Nov 14-16, 2012 <wbr>
See short video <a href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55</a>
and website for further details.<wbr>
_______________________________________________<wbr>
OE mailing list<wbr>
<a rel="nofollow">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><wbr>
<a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a><wbr>
<wbr>
<wbr>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
<br>
<div class="yiv1391814593plainMail">_______________________________________________<wbr>
Dialogue mailing list<wbr>
<a rel="nofollow">Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><wbr>
<a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net</a><wbr>
</div>
</blockquote>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<fieldset class="yiv1391814593mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Dialogue mailing list
<a class="yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-abbreviated" rel="nofollow">Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>
<a class="yiv1391814593moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<wbr>
<wbr>
</div>
</div>
<br>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
<br>
<div class="yiv1391814593plainMail">_______________________________________________<wbr>Dialogue mailing list<wbr><a rel="nofollow">Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><wbr><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net</a><wbr></div>
</blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table></div>
<wbr>_______________________________________________<wbr>Dialogue mailing list<wbr><a href="mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><wbr><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net</a><wbr><wbr><wbr> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Dialogue mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_2_adeca74e-c9d0-47a5-ac47-3b05420267dd -->
<div style="margin: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="AOLMsgPart_3_adeca74e-c9d0-47a5-ac47-3b05420267dd">
<pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>_______________________________________________
Dialogue mailing list
<a href="mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net">Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>
<a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net</a>
</tt></pre>
</div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_3_adeca74e-c9d0-47a5-ac47-3b05420267dd -->
</div>
</font>