[Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world

Mon Apr 14 18:41:11 PDT 2025

Thank you, Jo, for your down to earth, clear, personal, experiential explanations of the OW in the midst of TW. Yes, it is poetry pointing to neurological, emotional, psychological, spiritual states of consciousness in the midst of daily, mundane experience.

Robertson Work
Books and bio<https://www.amazon.com/Robertson-Work/e/B075612GBF>    Essays on Substack<https://robertsonwork.substack.com/>    Videos and articles<https://www.globalcompassioncoalition.org/author/robertson-work/>    Interviews and poetry<https://www.globalheart2heart.com/a-compassionate-civilization-creating-a-new-future-now/?fbclid=IwAR2EAy4c64wCRzlzUCzVKXokqce3hePofFvzdzvCM5aDYRb9QgdFyQPUyxU>
________________________________
From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> on behalf of Jo Nelson via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2025 9:35 PM
To: Jim Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Cc: Jo Nelson <jo.r.nelson at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world

I am definitely not a theologian, and don’t know the detailed history of the development of the Other World charts, but I certainly encounter the reality of awe — mystery, consciousness, care, and tranquility, in my life every day.  Ken Fisher’s post about the development of the Other World charts tells me that they came out of real, concrete personal experience.

And once when I had an overwhelming mystical experience as the result of an extremely challenging facilitation event (I was probably clinically insane in Western terms for a few days as I was observing alternate realities as I was going about the business of facilitating another event), Brian Stanfield recommended that I use the Other World charts to help me understand what had happened to me.  It took a long time, but I was able to use the poetry to help me understand what had happened and how I was changed by the event.  So yes I encounter the other world in the midst of this world as present in my life and in experiences shared with me by others.

For me, the act of grounding abstraction and poetry in real everyday life is one of the key contributions of the Institute, though one we have had a hard time articulating that to others.

I think how the Other World understanding is useful in dealing with current and emerging challenges is that it allows humans to acknowledge awe and relate to it in everyday life, rather than let it drive us nuts. Being aware of awe in all its forms certainly enriches my life!

Take care,
Jo

Jo Nelson
jo.r.nelson at gmail.com

On Apr 14, 2025, at 9:13 PM, James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

I am still wrestling with the question  1.  Did we actually encounter / (re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that??

I don't think it is a theological question in the first instance at all, but a question of historical experience and discovery.  What were the great discoveries of the 20th Century?  Was the (re)discovery of what we pointed to as "The Other World in the Midst of This World" one of them?  Was it only "us" or is this rediscovery a part of our collective human experience?

Here is a podcast . . . https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/a10b2cfb-c855-4193-acd4-a6a93d768012/audio

And if so, how is this discovery useful in dealing with the challenges of the rest of this century?

Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/james-wiegel/>

The unknown is what is.  And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that.  Unknown is what is.  Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing.    John Lennon

401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353

623-363-3277

jfwiegel at yahoo.com<mailto:marilyn.oyler at gmail.com>

www.partnersinparticipation.com<http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/>

On Sunday, April 13, 2025 at 04:45:14 PM MST, <w.schlesinger at pvida.net> wrote:

I think Bud says about the turn to the world, “In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies”.

In my memory it had less to do with studies and more to do with strategy.  Joe Mathews came back from a world church meeting that declined to confirm the Order Ecumenical as an entity.  That and other dynamics led to a decision to shift from focusing on the local church as the change agent in history (a la HRN) to a direct facilitation method in the community, public and private sectors with LENS and then ICA Facilitation.  Along with the Global Demonstration Projects and the ‘whistle points,’ the ICA became a strategic attempt to create a consensus based societal direction.  Many of us took those methods and models into a variety of corporate, community and non-profit entities.

That in turn involved looking at the dynamics that created and sustained a context that was derived from RS-1 but expressed in non-theological language.  Formal Christian language and symbolism had become a restricting dynamic in addressing and engaging a wider audience.

My take anyway.  And apologies for the wordy rant in my previous response.  I get that way sometimes.

FWIW

Bill Schlesinger

From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of James Wiegel via Dialogue
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 1:25 PM
To: rev.bud at mac.com
Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world

SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere"  Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record?

SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world".

ANYONE ELSE??

As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving.

<rev.bud at mac.com<mailto:rev.bud at mac.com>> wrote:

Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?”

I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order. Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/TmUQj4_wKtE?si%3Dra_czWIN1uUzTsv9&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3b9nAx2XaeuxYkE9zU_v9k> to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s.  I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . .

<image007.jpg>

<image008.png>

[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png]

24 Joe Slicker Mathews Went Down to be with Jack Lewis

I’m aware of what we may call a ’turn to the church’ by part of the CFLC staff<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/wwSefTMgDH4?si%3Dvy28C99WlyVQNpme&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3o5OMLgcdCp46vcrFUPkjC> with part of them going off to Chicago<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/uIutSynAQV0?si%3DllE6EueDZd8Vg-qi&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw0vO5ByIaAWp7rACbTdn2jG> in Easter 1962 to create E.I. <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/qsGecqvnQqs?si%3DdJsgi_uw6MPnQPu3&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw2Fu9bCwIhJHYKQajI49pyx> I’m aware of the ’turn to the world’ in the 1970s. In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies.

<image009.jpg>

<image010.png>

[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png]

41 Joe Slicker Let Me Tell You a Little About Evanston

<image011.jpg>

<image012.png>

[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png]

42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck•

<image013.jpg>

<image010.png>

[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png]

31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin

This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought (https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/)

It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness:

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s)

But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take?

I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question.  Here are some possibilities.

What about this little talk about "The Barefoot Jesus"<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/comd/100012.htm&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3yq0bumSB7rYlIJuHCkTZ2>

Untitled

I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful.

Peace,

Bud

On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com<mailto:jfwiegel at yahoo.com>> wrote:

Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question:  "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"

Anyone??

I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere”

Anyone?

Jim Wiegel

“…the long work
of turning their lives
into a celebration
is not easy. Come and let us talk“.

The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver

On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, rev.bud at mac.com<mailto:rev.bud at mac.com> wrote:

"How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
<image010.png><image009.jpg><image008.png><image007.jpg><image013.jpg><image012.png><image011.jpg>_______________________________________________
Dialogue mailing list
Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/dialogue-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250415/3a3ee57c/attachment.htm>