[Dialogue] Can Christianity Be Saved? Can Religion Be Saved?

[jlepps at pc.jaring.my]

A word of perspective:

"The church's function is to serve humanity -- 
not to get people to join it. And so it is with 
any other religion. God will take care of all the 
joining if you go about your task of serving 
humanity."  JWM, "Social Demonstration: Mass 
Replication", Bending History 2, p. 270.

Elsewhere I recall a statement about anytime you 
find yourself defending God or Christ (or the 
Church?) you can be sure that it's not God or 
Christ (or the Church) that you are defending.

So maybe what this is about is finding the most 
effective way to serve humanity.

John Epps

At 05:09 AM 7/18/2012, you wrote:
>Len,
>
>This column by Douthat is the one to which Diana 
>Butler Bass replied, that I referenced.  If you 
>want to see the Bass response just Google or 
>Yahoo "Can Christianity Be Saved."  She basically says what you're saying.
>
>Randy
>
>"Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the 
>course of being in the world; not to be 
>supported by it, but to bring it to reality as it desires."
>-Martin Buber (adapted)
>From: Len Hockley <lenh at efn.org>
>To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:59 PM
>Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Can Christianity Be Saved? Can Religion Be Saved?
>
>The article is at
>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/opinion/sunday/douthat-can-liberal-christianity-be-saved.html?_r=1&hpw
>
>Interesting article.  It assumes health of the 
>church can be measured by numbers, but concludes 
>correctly that we need to better define what it 
>means to be a Christian. He says:
>
>Today, by contrast, the leaders of the Episcopal 
>Church and similar bodies often don’t seem to 
>be offering anything you can’t already get 
>from a purely secular liberalism. Which suggests 
>that perhaps they should pause, amid their 
>frantic renovations, and consider not just what 
>they would change about historic Christianity, 
>but what they would defend and offer uncompromisingly to the world.
>
>I may be wrong, but it may be that there is 
>little difference between a social liberal and a 
>Christian except what one calls ones self.
>
>It all boils down to what the defining attribute 
>is for Christianity.  And for this I would put 
>forth Robin R. Meyers definition:
>
>The ultimate defining characteristic of 
>Christianity is the in­carnation, the mystery of 
>God's presence in a person. The Word became 
>flesh, as John put it (1:14), and lived among 
>us.  The incarnation gives the faith its form 
>and content, bringing God "nearer to us than our 
>jugular vein," to quote the Qur'an (50:16).
>Saving Jesus from the Church
>
>In this definition, the mantra "What would Jesus 
>do?" takes on basic importance.  It is a test of 
>an individual and does not require or recognize 
>any organizational membership.  The 
>organizational membership only points to a set 
>of symbols and rites that a group uses to remind 
>them of the wisdom that Jesus brought as the incarnation of the Mystery, God.
>
>The gift of the church is the keeper of the 
>history and the gathering of the faithful.
>
>Len
>
>
>
>
>On 7/16/2012 2:44 PM, R Williams wrote:
>>Last week New York Times columnist Ross Douthat 
>>wrote an article asking "Can Liberal 
>>Christianity Be Saved?" in which he asserted 
>>that manifestations of liberal Christianity, 
>>like the Episcopal Church, are facing imminent death.
>>
>>Diana Butler Ross, author of the recent book 
>>Christianity After Religion, responded to 
>>Douthat this week in the HuffPost, suggesting 
>>that conservative churches as well as liberal 
>>ones are declining.  She broadens the question 
>>to, "Can Christianity Be Saved?"  She 
>>ultimately asks, can liberal churches save 
>>Christianity?  She refers to isolated instances 
>>of local churches that are experiencing 
>>renewal, but suggests "the denominational 
>>structures have yet to adjust their 
>>institutions to the recovery of practical 
>>wisdom that is remaking local congregations."
>>
>>You may access Bass's article at 
>>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diana-butler-bass/can-christianity-be-saved-1_b_1674807.h
>>
>>The question could perhaps be taken to yet 
>>another level by asking, "Can religion be 
>>saved?" Or perhaps even more relevant, using 
>>our language and concerns from the 60s and 70s, 
>>is the question, "Can movemental Christianity 
>>survive and thrive without the institutional church?"
>>
>>Randy
>>
>>"Listen to what is emerging from yourself to 
>>the course of being in the world; not to be 
>>supported by it, but to bring it to reality as it desires."
>>-Martin Buber (adapted)
>>
>>
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