[Dialogue] Guns

Sun Dec 16 21:09:00 PST 2012

David,

This community knows the power of Town Meeting. The method works,
regardless of the topic. The effectiveness lies in the universal truth of
trusting people who know their situation to create solutions. We have
hundreds of documented success and thousands of communities that benefited.
We haven't discovered any thing that would lead to any other conclusion
than it will work. That said, I personally, speaking only for myself, feel
that the World Cafe method would be a better forum for this issue.

Jack

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 16, 2012, at 8:46 PM, David Walters <walters at alaweb.com> wrote:

I think that the folks who recently spent time in the atchives going thru
the TM files need to tell us their reflections on this body of materials
what that could tell us about doing TMs in the future.

-David Walters

--- wmbailey at charter.net wrote:

From: Marianna Bailey <wmbailey at charter.net>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Guns
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 21:34:29 -0500

Now that we have a name of a person to present a plan for community
dialogues and assuming that Don will contact Carolyn Lukensmeyer. We need a
plan for TMs! Are there some  "old hands" willing to work on
process/design? Proposal?
Marianna
 On Dec 15, 2012, at 5:27 PM, Don Bushman wrote:

 I  worked closely with her when she was Dick Celeste's chief of staff.
On Dec 15, 2012 5:21 PM, "Wilson Priscilla" <Pris at teamtechpress.com> wrote:

Does anyone know Carolyn J. Lukensmeyer...who founded and was the president
of America*Speaks.* She is now Executive Director of the National Institute
for Civil Discourse at the University of Arizona.
America*Speaks* led a 5,000 person Town Meeting discourse in NYC when the
plans first came out for rebuilding Ground Zero.
I was a table facilitator...and quite impressed with the folks they managed
to reach.
Talking with her about a "national" sponsor might produce something.

I think the conversation about needing ways to pull together TM type events
in multiple locations makes sense.
All of this after the continuing dialogue here...but it needs to go beyond
that.
Priscilla Wilson

 On Dec 15, 2012, at 4:00 PM, Jack Gilles wrote:

 Marianna,

TM would be good but you need a "national" sponsor. The World Cate process
I think would be easier to do and for this might work better.

Jack

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 15, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Marianna Bailey <wmbailey at charter.net> wrote:

 What about "Town Meetings" ? A 2 hour workshop designed for a community to
solve the problem of guns in the community. We need to "brainstorm"
 organizations that could sponsor the workshops.
Marianna
 On Dec 15, 2012, at 4:15 PM, Jack Gilles wrote:

 John,

I like your thinking and the tactics. Your "tiger" strategy really shifts
the thinking. Perhaps having a traveling forum with justice department
people, gun advocates, local law officials and a way for the local people
to speak (tables of five or so) and present a question or suggestion from
each table. Go to 10 or 15 locations. All of this telecast by PBS with call
in and perhaps 'vote graphs' for affirming ideas. Keep it before the larger
picture and audience. Affirm the second amendment, but stress safety,
accountability and public health & safety.

Jack

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 15, 2012, at 2:34 PM, "jlepps at pc.jaring.my" <jlepps at pc.jaring.my>
wrote:

 Thanks, Lee, for starting this conversation, and for all the
contributions. Here's my two cents:

*I. CONTEXT
*I grew up in a home where guns were part of the normal possessions. I've
owned a BB, a 22, a 410, and a couple of 12-gage shotguns (though I never
was a hunter). Dad, my brother and I all participated in skeet shooting as
a hobby, and spent many hours loading shotgun shells for re-use at the
range. There was plenty of safety training, both at home and through Boy
Scouts. Then in my brief stint with the Army, I earned a sharpshooter medal
on the rifle range and learned a lot about the M-1 (major learning: don't
point it at anything you don't intend to kill).

For the past 20+ years I have lived in Malaysia where it is a capital
offense to own a gun or a bullet, and people have been sent to the gallows
for the possession of a single bullet. Occasionally criminals have been
found to possess guns -- usually after they've been shot dead by the
police. Criminals still function, but usually with machetes.

So my personal relation to the issue has some ambiguity.

One other bit of context: We DID succeed with the smoking issue, and that
was QUITE a cultural transformation. It's not impossible.

*II. IDEAS
*In addition to the analysis recommended by Randy & Jack, it seems to me
some strategic thinking is in order, and a very appropriate way to begin is
with the Chinese strategem, *"Lure the Tiger out of the mountains."* The
insight is, if you go tiger hunting, don't do it on the tiger's home turf.
That's a strategy for getting eaten! You lure the tiger onto your home
turf. Put another way, make it an advantage for the enemy to agree with you.

Of course identifying the tiger in this situation is complex. Is it the NRA
or gun-owners or the firearms industry? Probably all of the above.

So in this case the "tiger bait" might be inviting a debate around the
theme of protecting your home & family. One of the arguments from
proponents of guns is to provide protection against burglars & other
intruders. The rational "hook" in the bait would be to compare statistics
of those who've wounded or killed burglars vs those who've been
accidentally killed or otherwise murdered with abundant guns. I'm guessing
that the statistics would be around 1,000 to 1. But rationality never
convinces anyone, though it can disclose the fallacy of an argument.

To this, we might add the proposition that all newly built homes are
required to have a burglar alarm system installed and connected to the
police station. Existing homes could be retro-fitted (with a tax
incentive.- similar to the solar energy incentive, this one creatively
named "Home Protection System." Think of the jobs!)

Another part of the strategy is to make it disadvantageous to oppose gun
control. That's what happened when schoolchildren began hassling parents
who were smokers. What if school curricula had a module that pointed out
the crudity and danger of guns? Then kids might, instead of  playing
gun-games, become advocates of no-gun games. (In addition to my
previously-mentioned firearm collection, I also had a couple of fine cap
pistols!)

In terms of regulation, perhaps there might be licenses for hunting
(already, but add a license for the gun(s) used); license for skeet
shooting, and a license for home protection. The latter would be issued
with the purchase of the gun, and a locked container to secure it with a
complicated combination.  Of course there needs to be a ban on civilian
ownership of assault weapons and multi-shot magazines. These regulations
simply make it more inconvenient for gun users to operate.

In addition to licenses, it might be interesting to require purchasers of
guns to be enrolled in a "citizen's militia" (the Constitution says that is
the basis for the right to bear arms) run by the NRA & local police and
conducting required training in safety in use of firearms. The unit might
even develop drill teams and perform at sports events! Take a look at this
as what a good drill team can look like:
http://sorisomail.com/email/16993/exibicao-de-banda-militar--um-espectaculo-imperdivel.html

Maybe that would make it easier for the "tigers" to agree. Still it will
take some doing -- maybe even some pilot projects (God forbid!).

Anyway brainstorms are meant to generate ideas.

Of course the cries for increased mental health need to be implemented.
Those strategies are long range and necessary.

John

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  Priscilla H Wilson
Pris at TeamTechPress.com
913-432-2107
www.teamtechpress.com

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