[Dialogue] Another angle on the brainstorm . . .

Sat Dec 15 20:26:29 PST 2012

I worked with Carolyn when age was Dick Celeste's chief of staff.
On Dec 15, 2012 7:30 PM, "James Wiegel" <jfwiegel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings....
>
> "You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.
>
> It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch
> how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like
> celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are ho
> usehold names, but do you kn
> ow the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would
> otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to
> top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a
> grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible
> monster, instead of a sad nobody.
>
> CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as
> the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics
> somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video
> interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard
> while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's
> face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that
> focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen
> yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media,
> you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care
> center or a maternity ward next.
>
> You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering
> the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health
> research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."
>
>
> Jim Wiegel
>
> ". . . In this whole world i don't know a more sly, more cunning, useful
> virtue than sheer dizzy pluck!" The Odyssey A Modern Sequel. Nikos
> Kazantzakis
>
>
> 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
> +1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel
> jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
>
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> --- On *Sat, 12/15/12, Marianna Bailey <wmbailey at charter.net>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Marianna Bailey <wmbailey at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Guns
> To: "Colleague Dialogue" <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Date: Saturday, December 15, 2012, 5:09 PM
>
> That would be great to have 5,000 person (or more) discourse on creating
> safe communities. I'm wondering what would be a good "vision" question to
> start the conversation.
> On Dec 15, 2012, at 5:20 PM, Wilson Priscilla wrote:
>
> Does anyone know Carolyn J. Lukensmeyer...who founded and was the
> president of America*Speaks.* She is now Executive Director of the
> National Institute for Civil Discourse at the University of Arizona.
> America*Speaks* led a 5,000 person Town Meeting discourse in NYC when the
> plans first came out for rebuilding Ground Zero.
> I was a table facilitator...and quite impressed with the folks they
> managed to reach.
> Talking with her about a "national" sponsor might produce something.
>
> I think the conversation about needing ways to pull together TM type
> events in multiple locations makes sense.
> All of this after the continuing dialogue here...but it needs to go beyond
> that.
> Priscilla Wilson
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2012, at 4:00 PM, Jack Gilles wrote:
>
> Marianna,
>
> TM would be good but you need a "national" sponsor. The World Cate process
> I think would be easier to do and for this might work better.
>
> Jack
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 15, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Marianna Bailey <wmbailey at charter.net<http://mc/compose?to=wmbailey@charter.net>>
> wrote:
>
> What about "Town Meetings" ? A 2 hour workshop designed for a community to
> solve the problem of guns in the community. We need to "brainstorm"
>  organizations that could sponsor the workshops.
> Marianna
> On Dec 15, 2012, at 4:15 PM, Jack Gilles wrote:
>
> John,
>
> I like your thinking and the tactics. Your "tiger" strategy really shifts
> the thinking. Perhaps having a traveling forum with justice department
> people, gun advocates, local law officials and a way for the local people
> to speak (tables of five or so) and present a question or suggestion from
> each table. Go to 10 or 15 locations. All of this telecast by PBS with call
> in and perhaps 'vote graphs' for affirming ideas. Keep it before the larger
> picture and audience. Affirm the second amendment, but stress safety,
> accountability and public health & safety.
>
> Jack
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 15, 2012, at 2:34 PM, "jlepps at pc.jaring.my<http://mc/compose?to=jlepps@pc.jaring.my>"
> <jlepps at pc.jaring.my <http://mc/compose?to=jlepps@pc.jaring.my>> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Lee, for starting this conversation, and for all the
> contributions. Here's my two cents:
>
> *I. CONTEXT
> *I grew up in a home where guns were part of the normal possessions. I've
> owned a BB, a 22, a 410, and a couple of 12-gage shotguns (though I never
> was a hunter). Dad, my brother and I all participated in skeet shooting as
> a hobby, and spent many hours loading shotgun shells for re-use at the
> range. There was plenty of safety training, both at home and through Boy
> Scouts. Then in my brief stint with the Army, I earned a sharpshooter medal
> on the rifle range and learned a lot about the M-1 (major learning: don't
> point it at anything you don't intend to kill).
>
> For the past 20+ years I have lived in Malaysia where it is a capital
> offense to own a gun or a bullet, and people have been sent to the gallows
> for the possession of a single bullet. Occasionally criminals have been
> found to possess guns -- usually after they've been shot dead by the
> police. Criminals still function, but usually with machetes.
>
> So my personal relation to the issue has some ambiguity.
>
> One other bit of context: We DID succeed with the smoking issue, and that
> was QUITE a cultural transformation. It's not impossible.
>
> *II. IDEAS
> *In addition to the analysis recommended by Randy & Jack, it seems to me
> some strategic thinking is in order, and a very appropriate way to begin is
> with the Chinese strategem, *"Lure the Tiger out of the mountains."* The
> insight is, if you go tiger hunting, don't do it on the tiger's home turf.
> That's a strategy for getting eaten! You lure the tiger onto your home
> turf. Put another way, make it an advantage for the enemy to agree with you.
>
> Of course identifying the tiger in this situation is complex. Is it the
> NRA or gun-owners or the firearms industry? Probably all of the above.
>
> So in this case the "tiger bait" might be inviting a debate around the
> theme of protecting your home & family. One of the arguments from
> proponents of guns is to provide protection against burglars & other
> intruders. The rational "hook" in the bait would be to compare statistics
> of those who've wounded or killed burglars vs those who've been
> accidentally killed or otherwise murdered with abundant guns. I'm guessing
> that the statistics would be around 1,000 to 1. But rationality never
> convinces anyone, though it can disclose the fallacy of an argument.
>
> To this, we might add the proposition that all newly built homes are
> required to have a burglar alarm system installed and connected to the
> police station. Existing homes could be retro-fitted (with a tax
> incentive.- similar to the solar energy incentive, this one creatively
> named "Home Protection System." Think of the jobs!)
>
> Another part of the strategy is to make it disadvantageous to oppose gun
> control. That's what happened when schoolchildren began hassling parents
> who were smokers. What if school curricula had a module that pointed out
> the crudity and danger of guns? Then kids might, instead of  playing
> gun-games, become advocates of no-gun games. (In addition to my
> previously-mentioned firearm collection, I also had a couple of fine cap
> pistols!)
>
> In terms of regulation, perhaps there might be licenses for hunting
> (already, but add a license for the gun(s) used); license for skeet
> shooting, and a license for home protection. The latter would be issued
> with the purchase of the gun, and a locked container to secure it with a
> complicated combination.  Of course there needs to be a ban on civilian
> ownership of assault weapons and multi-shot magazines. These regulations
> simply make it more inconvenient for gun users to operate.
>
> In addition to licenses, it might be interesting to require purchasers of
> guns to be enrolled in a "citizen's militia" (the Constitution says that is
> the basis for the right to bear arms) run by the NRA & local police and
> conducting required training in safety in use of firearms. The unit might
> even develop drill teams and perform at sports events! Take a look at this
> as what a good drill team can look like:
> http://sorisomail.com/email/16993/exibicao-de-banda-militar--um-espectaculo-imperdivel.html
>
> Maybe that would make it easier for the "tigers" to agree. Still it will
> take some doing -- maybe even some pilot projects (God forbid!).
>
> Anyway brainstorms are meant to generate ideas.
>
> Of course the cries for increased mental health need to be implemented.
> Those strategies are long range and necessary.
>
> John
>
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>
> Priscilla H Wilson
> Pris at TeamTechPress.com <http://mc/compose?to=Pris@TeamTechPress.com>
> 913-432-2107
> www.teamtechpress.com
>
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